Solo diving and back up gear.

[undrwater]

Perhaps it is best for some to formulate strong opinion in the form of a question. Particularly at the beginning stages of learning an activity.

Here's an example:

Isn't it common sense for someone who is going to dive solo, to take a redundant air source along with them? If it isn't, why not?

This way, you are not accusing someone of NOT having common sense, AND you are learning in the process. BONUS!

 

[DevonDiver]

There are many people on this forum that have started off from the beginning solo diving and have been doing so for many many years.

What you may fail to appreciate is that the nature, scope and mindset of diver training has changed drastically over 30 years. There ARE several (not "many") on the forum who started out solo diving... but they are a product of a different generation, who received a very different flavor and depth of training.

A modern entry-level training course (typically of 4 dives duration) barely provides competence on scuba, with an emphasis on 'fun', not 'safety' and a goal to get people into the water as quickly and conveniently as possible. These courses are designed, and taught, on the basis that the buddy system exists to provide a sufficient element of safety and security. There is no focus on individual self-reliance - and no skills, procedures or theory exist within the syllabus to enable that. Such training and knowledge is preserved for specialist courses, which only become available much later in the training progression.

25 dives is really not much. Put into perspective, it's a single week of diving on a liveaboard trip. I can't think of any other pursuit where one might consider themselves 'advanced' or 'experienced' after a single week of participation in an activity.

For some people you need 100 dives...others say 500 dives, and others say 1000 dives.

But none at 25 dives.

I've been involved with the scuba industry for nearly a decade, and have yet to meet a ~25 dive beginner who possessed the physical or mental requirements to assure safety if diving alone. Not one.... not even close.

100 dives seems, to me, like a minimum threshold for a particularly adept and naturally gifted diver. That's about the time when things actually start to 'come together' for a diver - and when they might reasonably have done sufficient diving to have encountered a few problems to test their skillset and stress management - thus allowing some minimal semblance of self-assessment. For the 'average' diver, I'd suspect that such realization would come at around 250-500 dives.

...some people can start off solo diving, ....its a mindset... prudent.....its important to have the right gear and KNOW that gear inside and out.....being prepared for all the what if's...

I don't think you can see the obvious disparity in your own statement.

Let me illustrate...

How can a diver be 'prudent', if they don't understand the risks or their own performance when challenged? Hypothesizing doesn't count - only experience counts. How you 'think' you will cope, bears little relation to reality, when that happens.

How can a beginning diver "KNOW that gear inside and out"? Equipment familiarity doesn't occur overnight, nor does it occur on dry land. Muscle memory needs to be ingrained, and this is a product of weeks and months of use, not hours. Assuming dive durations of 30-60 minutes, how much familiarity can a 25 dive beginner really expect to develop... with only 12-24 hours of actual equipment operation?

How can a diver be prepared for all the "what if's", when they don't have knowledge or experience of those factors? Trust me, entry-level training doesn't cover many of the "what if's"... it covers only the most basic, common ones... that could be reasonably resolved by a diver of minimal experience with the expected assistance of a buddy. After 20+ years of scuba diving, I'm still learning about the "what if's".... for a beginner to claim comprehensive knowledge of those factors is beyond laughable.

 

[vapourinthesea]

I dont claim comprehensive knowledge of all what if situations...but I do try to learn as much as I can about as many as I can. I try to read and study the stuff that has happened to you all, and research consistantly about others one's that I haven't seen mentioned. As far as knowing my gear...I would say I know my gear pretty well...but someone like me isn't going to have the same gear as you DevonDiver. You would have much much more that I do, as well as far more complicated gear. I have much much less gear so that limits how much there is to know about my gear as well as reduces failure points. Someone can own a skateboard and know all the in's and out's of each piece of it pretty quickly....but know how to use it is what will take time. Also, I know that the scuba teaching nowadays is cremepuffs to the old school teachings, and I wished that it was more rigorous...but sadly isn't. Which is why I'm here....and other places....to learn as much as I can. And lastly, I dont dive deeper than what I can freedive to comfortably. Even if I had 5 catastrophic things happen at once, I can easily ditch my gear and ascend.

Its true that experience (and knowledge) are the only things that count...but do they always have to be your own? You can learn from others experience and knowledge which is what history is. We can learn from others so that we are not "doomed to repeat it". Its true that until Im in a situation I wont totally know how I'm going to respond as far as staying cool and collected, but as for knowing what to do in that situation and how to respond, that I can learn from others who have experienced it. I am a newb, and I hope that as I am rebuked or challenged that I can humbly assess myself and learn from those of you who do have so much experience. I want you all to know that I am very appreciative of your rebukes,challenges,ect. I thank you for your time to write it all down and to show that you do care for others that want to get to the same level as yourselves. I have been in contact with my local dive shop and hopefully starting next week I will be doing "fun" dives with them every week throughout the summer.

 

[DaleC]

I will stay out of the "at what point is someone ready to solo dive" debate for now but I would like to comment on the equipment issue.

As I alluded to earlier, those who dive "old school" gear wise also probably dive "old school" skill and dive plan wise. There was a point in the past, wherein more challenging dives would benefit from additional equipment features and that is what spurred those inventions.

Two experienced divers can buddy breath off a single regulator but diving with unskilled/new divers is problematic - hence the octo.

Diving carefully weighted and in sheltered locales one can go without compensation. Over weighted divers or those doing unfamiliar exposed dives have issues - hence the BC.

Diving to about 60' in OW one can plan to use the surface for bailout. Deeper dives, or those where a direct ascent isn't feasible require something more - hence the alternate airsource.

Divers doing those same dives with experience in how long the tank should last can use a J valve because, even if it does fail, they can bailout to the surface. Modern divers, doing deeper multilevel dives without that same experience cannot calculate or rely on the same device - hence the SPG.

Like some others I have no issue diving to those depths, in those conditions without an SPG, octo or BC: but I didn't just wake up one morning and decide to group those things together all at once on a single dive. I took my time and studied, practiced and talked to guys like Captain. I still don't do deep multilevel dives with a J valve and I wouldn't do an ocean drift dive off a live boat without a BC. If I'm diving with someone who isn't comfortable buddy breathing I add an octo or pony.

That knowledge and experience was the building block upon which diving was built. Those additional safety features initially allowed skilled divers to do more challenging dives. Now, the dive industry pushes divers into more challenging dives with less experience and uses those features to compensate. Unfortunately, most modern divers have no interest in the history of what they do and think divers always need "all the gear" to do simple straightforward dives.

It's great that you are young and asking questions. If you stay curious you will be an incredibly well rounded diver. I really mean that. Being unafraid to stand out and ask the question is to me, the most important ingredient in intelligence.

 

[vapourinthesea]

Thank you for that post DaleC.

 

[DevonDiver]

I dont claim comprehensive knowledge of all what if situations...but I do try to learn as much as I can about as many as I can. I try to read and study the stuff that has happened to you all, and research consistantly about others one's that I haven't seen mentioned.

Research is one thing. Experience is another.

I could read a book about X subject and understand the risks.... but that would, in no way, equip me to deal with those risks.... or educate me how I would be capable of psychologically coping under those circumstances.

The internet is a wonderful thing - a vast resource, but not a substitute in any way for actually doing something. The only thing you learn about yourself from internet searching - is how good you are at finding and digesting info on the internet.

As far as knowing my gear...I would say I know my gear pretty well...

I'd say that you probably aren't equipped (no pun intended) to make that statement.

Ingrained familiarity - from the perspective of emergency management - is dictated by the unconscious ability to operate the equipment automatically and without task loading, whilst dealing with multiple stressors and demands. To be assured of that level of competence, you need to have tested your ingrained function under those circumstances.

As an example, I switched to sidemount configuration some time ago. I did a very good course to use the equipment - that was merely a starting point. Since that time, I've dove (almost exclusively) in sidemount.... some 250+ dives (rec and tec). I am STILL developing what I consider to be reliable and ingrained familiarity with that equipment.

The key issue is what you consider to be a level of familiarity. Such expectations tend to be in-line with relative experience... meaning that a noobie's expectations are considerably lower than an experienced diver's. That is where I see a disconnect between the advice given, and the response illustrated in your replies. What you consider 'good' or 'competent' differs markedly from what more experienced divers are trying to educate you about.

...someone like me isn't going to have the same gear as you DevonDiver. You would have much much more that I do, as well as far more complicated gear.

Not at all. One thing I've learned is that simplicity and minimalism is a core factor in incident response under stress. Sidemount aside (I use that for recreational, open-water, shallow diving only for the purposes of developing familiarity/ingrained skill) I'd hazard a guess that my OW kit was far more simplistic and minimal that what you use.

Someone can own a skateboard and know all the in's and out's of each piece of it pretty quickly....but know how to use it is what will take time.

...and that's exactly what I'm talking about when I refer to familiarity and ingrained skill.... the operation.

Also, I know that the scuba teaching nowadays is cremepuffs to the old school teachings, and I wished that it was more rigorous...but sadly isn't. Which is why I'm here....and other places....to learn as much as I can.

It's just as rigorous..... only nowadays, it is modular/staged training...allowing a progressive development in line with the student's development of skill, experience and confidence (and also convenience and budget....).

Sign up for a solo diver course...and see if that isn't as 'rigorous' as you'd dream of...

The point being... OW training is just what it says it is..... training to dive (using the buddy system) in an OW environment. That environment having conditions equal to, or better than, what you trained in. Given that most OW lessons are run in very benign conditions - it qualifies you to dive (with a buddy) in benign conditions. It does not qualify you to dive without a buddy... even if conditions are benign.

And lastly, I dont dive deeper than what I can freedive to comfortably. Even if I had 5 catastrophic things happen at once, I can easily ditch my gear and ascend.

If entangled?

If physically incapacitated?

Again... there's a hypothetical assumption made (that you can "easily ditch gear and ascend"). Until you've proven that capability - under stress, with real 'catastrophic events occurring', then it's just a pipe-dream...a fantasy.

Its true that experience (and knowledge) are the only things that count...but do they always have to be your own?

If we're talking about the practical application of skill, under sub-optimum conditions, by an individual.... then, YES... what matters is your own experience, capability and psychology.

Its true that until Im in a situation I wont totally know how I'm going to respond as far as staying cool and collected, but as for knowing what to do in that situation and how to respond, that I can learn from others who have experienced it.

Knowing what to do.... and doing it.... are two very different realities. If they weren't, then far fewer people would die on scuba.

I am a newb, and I hope that as I am rebuked or challenged that I can humbly assess myself and learn from those of you who do have so much experience.

If you want to short-cut the long path to experience and self-awareness as a diver, then the best route is to seek a credible mentor/instructor... not necessarily to teach you, but more importantly to test you.

I don't have a firm opinion on the minimum experience (logged dives) needed to go solo.... because experience varies... but 100 dives does seem like a fair minimum to me, when considering solo diving. What I do strongly believe is that, without a huge breadth of experience, the potential solo/tech/overhead diver does need to be accurately self-aware of their capabilities, and that can come from performance feedback from someone who does possess that experience. The easiest (for most) method to obtain that feedback is through training of an increasingly progressive and demanding nature.

 

[AfterDark]

I'll jump into the when a diver is ready to solo...when the diver doesn't have to ask the question because the diver already knows the answer.

 

[Mandy3206]

First and most important, take many more courses, that way you will log some time with your gear and learn more aspects of diving.

I've changed my gear configuration many times over the yrs, just one thing at a time to adapt to certain situation or type of diving I do, many times I went back to the original configuration or changed it further more since it wasn't working like I wanted.

My point is that you need lots of experience and need to read countless hours and ask countless questions to get to a level where you'll feel really safe diving alone.

I look back at when I started free diving in the late 70's and thought I knew all about diving, then got certified in the 90's and found out I didn't knew Sh@t about diving, then in the early 00's I took courses up to master scuba diver and learned that still need to learn many more.

As you evolve as a diver you'll look back and laugh at your ignorance at a certain points in your dive history and thank God that nothing happened to you on your yahoo days.

Take the courses, and log many more hrs, you'll be an accomplished diver when you don't have to log more dives on your logbook to demonstrate your experience to other divers, then you'll be ready for Solo diving.......

 

[Bob DBF]

And lastly, I dont dive deeper than what I can freedive to comfortably. Even if I had 5 catastrophic things happen at once, I can easily ditch my gear and ascend.

A very important peice of information. Although it it may not seem important in a SCUBA discussion, the water skills a person has makes a big difference because they are adapting to SCUBA not just learning to dive.

Sorry, because you didn't mention it, I assumed you were one of the many that learn to dive with little or no water skills and therefore were "in over your head" out of the gate.



Bob
-----------------------------------
I may be old, but I’m not dead yet.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

I dont claim comprehensive knowledge of all what if situations...but I do try to learn as much as I can about as many as I can. I try to read and study the stuff that has happened to you all, and research consistantly about others one's that I haven't seen mentioned.

There's a huge difference between knowing something and understanding it. Understanding comes from the application of knowledge, which in the case of scuba diving means bottom time. The reality is that what saves your bacon in times of stress isn't knowing something ... it's having ingrained that knowledge into skills in a way that causes you to remember what you know at a time when you may need to apply it in ways you've never before had to consider. Diving is like music ... one can know all the notes, but music also involves timing, emphasis, and a combination of skills that produce the desired result. But what you're really striving for is how to deal with the situational things that lead to stress, distress, and accidents ... that's like improvisation ... before you are ever qualified to deal with it you must first master your skills to the point where you don't have to think about how to apply them ... they're instinctive.

As far as knowing my gear...I would say I know my gear pretty well...but someone like me isn't going to have the same gear as you DevonDiver. You would have much much more that I do, as well as far more complicated gear. I have much much less gear so that limits how much there is to know about my gear as well as reduces failure points. Someone can own a skateboard and know all the in's and out's of each piece of it pretty quickly....but know how to use it is what will take time.

Do you know your gear well? What would you do if faced with a chronically flooding mask? What about a regulator that suddenly starts freeflowing? How would you deal with a sudden sensation of "I can't get enough air?" What about if you accidentally inhaled a tiny dose of water and found yourself alone at 70 feet with a laryngospasm? What would you do if the OPV or inflator hose became separated from your BCD? Or if you put air in your BCD and it kept inflating when you released the inflate button?

Have you ever practiced responding to any of those failures? You should ... because I've seen every one of them happen, and unless you've actually practiced dealing with them, you don't really know much about your equipment at all. We don't train for what goes right, after all ... we train for what goes wrong.

Also, I know that the scuba teaching nowadays is cremepuffs to the old school teachings, and I wished that it was more rigorous...but sadly isn't. Which is why I'm here....and other places....to learn as much as I can.

Scuba training nowadays teaches you the same things that the old school training did ... they just break it up into modules. You've only taken module 1 so far ... there are many more to go before you can consider yourself proficient. ScubaBoard and other media can teach you at an academic level ... but the real learning comes in the water. Scuba diving places you in an environment completely foreign to your previous experience, and can toss more variables at you than you're equipped to imagine. You can only learn how to deal with those variables through practice. Again, using the music analogy ... there's a huge difference between learning the scales and playing music ... no one becomes a proficient musician by reading about music.

And lastly, I dont dive deeper than what I can freedive to comfortably. Even if I had 5 catastrophic things happen at once, I can easily ditch my gear and ascend.

Oh, we're all good at hubris ... it's particularly common among those who have just enough dives to start thinking they've got it all figured out. So how many of those catastrophic things have you actually experienced? Have you ever practiced ditching your gear at depth and swimming to the surface? Under what conditions do you think that would be your best option? What other options are there? What are you wearing for exposure gear ... and weight? How is that weight distributed? What will happen to your buoyancy if you ditch your rig? Will your weights remain attached to you, or will they be attached to your BCD? Have you ever attempted removing and replacing your BCD underwater? ... because for the entangled solo diver that is usually a much better option than separating from your air supply and bolting for surface air. How do you know, if five things go wrong ... or even one ... that you won't get so preoccupied with trying to address what went wrong that you won't dig yourself deeper into a situation you can't get yourself out of? Have you ever tried concentrating on more than one thing at a time while underwater? Have you ever tried dealing with a problem while maintaining your buoyancy? Can you? These are all questions you really need to know the answer to before you consider yourself ready to solo dive ... otherwise you're trusting to skills you don't even know whether or not you possess.

Its true that experience (and knowledge) are the only things that count...but do they always have to be your own?

Yes ... because as a solo diver, what you bring with you is all you'll be able to count on having at a time of need.

You can learn from others experience and knowledge which is what history is. We can learn from others so that we are not "doomed to repeat it". Its true that until Im in a situation I wont totally know how I'm going to respond as far as staying cool and collected, but as for knowing what to do in that situation and how to respond, that I can learn from others who have experienced it. I am a newb, and I hope that as I am rebuked or challenged that I can humbly assess myself and learn from those of you who do have so much experience. I want you all to know that I am very appreciative of your rebukes,challenges,ect. I thank you for your time to write it all down and to show that you do care for others that want to get to the same level as yourselves. I have been in contact with my local dive shop and hopefully starting next week I will be doing "fun" dives with them every week throughout the summer.

I can appreciate where you're coming from ... but it gets back to not knowing what you don't know ... and in this case, based on your posts it sounds like you're relying on knowledge gleaned from reading and studying. That's only a beginning ... it's the application of that knowledge that will make you ready to solo dive. You're trying to jump directly from basic piano lessons to solo concerto without taking the time to learn the nuances of applying what you learned ... or testing your ability to combine individual skills in a way that makes music. Little in life works that way ... scuba diving is no exception. Take the time to test yourself ... in the company of a more experienced dive buddy ... before assuming that you'll have what it takes to deal with problems on your own.

Skills and equipment aren't the limiting factor ... stress and the ability to function while task-loaded are. And you won't learn how to deal with stress or function while task-loaded without putting yourself into situations where you have to. The purpose of training is to do those things in a controlled manner ... and your OW class is only the bare-bones beginning of teaching you those things.

Sometime ago I wrote an article on what a person contemplating solo diving should know ... it's intended audience was someone like you. You'll find it here ... NWGratefulDiver.com

It's a barebones minimum ... and I highly recommend you test yourself in the presence of a buddy qualified to render assistance while you practice these skills and teach yourself how to respond to the situations that would require them.

Again, I admire your spirit and determination ... but by no means do I think you're prepared to be a solo diver yet. I base that judgment not on your dive count ... but on the content of the posts you've created in this thread. They tell me that you don't yet understand the significance of what you're attempting to do. Get some more bottom time ... that's where the understanding will come from ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)