Sobering dive tonight.

[ScubaJorgen]

Yo Kaffphine

***warning *** alert *** I am not a doctor :doctor: :nono: *** warning *** disclaimer *** blah blah

I just read something about what's called 'carotid-sinus' reflex (guess where I read it, on
my own homepage, probably forgot that I ever put it there )

There are bloodpressure carotid sinus receptors in your neck. If they measure high bloodpressure they signal this grey matter of yours, slowing down your heart rate and widen your blood vessels. Normally this would reduce blood pressure.

However, if the neckseal of your diving suit presses on these receptors, they keep signaling your brain, keeping heart rates down and blood vessels open. Discomfort, light headed ness :weirdo: (whatever that might be, I am dutch) and even unconsciousness may be the result. Opening bloodvessels might explain your red hands.....


This might explain your state of mind, though I like to strike out I am not a doctor and please, do not use it as a diagnosis.... Just take a notice and be careful!

Yo docs, how about that!! (gee, I like these smileys)

Bye

 

[Aquamore]

Hi Jess

The original pic was removed. Here it is again

Aquamore

 

[Aquamore]

Oooops..... forgot to attach it

 

[Windknot]

OK,

I can finally submit a reply that has my experience and knowledge behind it, instead of asking questions.

I have been a paramedic for the last 13 years and have something to add to the fray. ScubaJorgen hit on something that all of you have missed or dismissed.

Jess, by the end of the dive, you had an altered level of consciousness, a loss of sensation, motion, and numbness in the extremities in toto.

If you address the latter sx/sn by themselves you can most likely attribute them to cold or tight seals which our learned boar members have already addressed.

The decreased level of consciousness however, is a much more challenging problem to decipher, and a MUCH more important subject to address immediately.

ScubaJorgen's comments about the Valsalva reflex were right on the money. If your neck seal is too tight, the carotid sinus' MAY be excited.

You should also consider the following for OTHER possible causes of the decreased level of consciousness...

1. Did you analyze your tank before or after the dive? Hypoxia should be considered as another possible culprit.

2. How was your breathing in the cold water? Do you remember having a headache afterwards? Rapid shallow breathing (especially when task loading under water) can lead to excess CO2 retention....again another factor to consider.

3. Along Yooper's line of questions...what had you eaten that day? If you had not eaten or had eaten very little you could have also been in an earyl hypoglycemic state. Add that to the task loading, excessive shivering and burning the normal fuels that go with diving could have dropped your blood sugar further.

These comments are not meant to scare you, but make you aware that although the cold was probably a factor, it was PROBABLY not the main factor for your mental state. I have found that decreased levels of consciousness are a much later stage of advanced hypothermia and although a problem in and of themselves, should not be all you pay attention to.

Just do me a favor......

On your next say.....5 dives in the cold, with your dry suit on, have your buddy do serial buddy checks on you while under water to ensure that you are not still having those problems.

Get warm, change the gloves, have your LDS do the trimming on your seals and make sure that you eat lots of energy food before you dive. Stay well hydrated and enjoy.

Oh yeah....almsot forgot....you should discuss all of the above with your liscensed family physician (which I am not) and get professional opinion about your problems. We are a good crutch for one another on this board, but a good ol' dose of Dr. Doctor is worth the small time and effort that it takes.

Windknot

<<<<<DISCLAIMER>>>>>>
***The preceeding was in no way meant to establish a patient/clinician relationship and was for general information only. Furthermore, the author encourages ALL readers to consult their physician ANY time they have any questions regarding thier health.****

 

[Kaffphine]

WindKnot-
"1. Did you analyze your tank before or after the dive? Hypoxia should be considered as another possible culprit.

2. How was your breathing in the cold water? Do you remember having a headache afterwards? Rapid shallow breathing (especially when task loading under water) can lead to excess CO2 retention....again another factor to consider.

3. Along Yooper's line of questions...what had you eaten that day? If you had not eaten or had eaten very little you could have also been in an earyl hypoglycemic state. Add that to the task loading, excessive shivering and burning the normal fuels that go with diving could have dropped your blood sugar further. "


1. No, the tank was not analyed. It didn't taste bad.
2. My breathing right now is that of me being a dryvac, deep and constant. Which doesn't bother me, since I have other more important thing to take of right now. No headache during or after the dive.
3. The night before I had pasta, lunch that day was pasta and some nutriagain bars on the way down. After beefstew (the guys here know food!) And lots of water and watered down fruit punch... and sadly no Coke .


I finally got the finaly story on the wrist seals, I can pick it up Monday! Which means no diving this weekend, but I'll be back out this coming Thursday night: Same place, same dive buddy. I'm gonna get ahold of him early next week and see if we could get there a little early and talk about what went on last time. Shorter dive definetly!!

 

[pipedope]

Sounds like hypothermia from a combination of factors including;
1 cold dive the night before
2 new/unfamiliar equipment including tight seals
3 pushing the limit of cold tolerance

We often push too far in an effort to not appear whimpy. It is better to take action before something becomes a problem.
As soon as I feel cold in the water (after the first rush of getting in) I know it is time to get out and rewarm.

I like to add only one new thing at a time and then in mild conditions. You were trying to dial in a new dry suit on a *cold*, *night* dive! ???

Why not get comfortable in the new dry suit in a nice comfy pool. Get the seals streached/trimmed to fit, get the boots and gloves sorted out and then do a few easy, day dives in cold water before adding it all together.

Please don't think I am ragging on you (actually I am a little) but I am old enough to play old fuddy duddy.


Here are a couple of quotes from the Navy dive manual;

"Divers and Diving Supervisors must be aware of the cumulative thermal effect
of repetitive diving. A thermal debt can accumulate over successive diving
days, resulting in increased fatigue and reduced performance. The progressive
hypothermia associated with long, slow cooling of the body appears to cause
significant core temperature drop before shivering and heat production begins."

also;

"Hypothermia demands immediate treatment and prompt evacuation to a medical
facility. A hypothermic diver must not be allowed to walk; the diver should be
transported in a horizontal position. Improper handling of the diver can cause
dangerous rhythms of the heart and a drop in the body core temperature, known as
after drop."

And lastly;

"Mild Hypothermia. To treat hypothermia, rewarm the victim. In mild cases, the
victim will experience uncontrolled shivering, slurred speech, imbalance, and/or
poor judgment. If these symptoms occur, the dive supervisor shall be notified
immediately. Passive and active rewarming measures should be initiated and
continue until the victim is sweating. If the victim requires more than a few
minutes of rewarming, he shall be evaluated by Diving Medical Personnel."

Dive safe and dive again.

michael

 

[pipedope]

Remember that if you feel cold during a dive you are at increased risk for DCS.
If you are hypothermic after a dive you are at greatly increased risk for DCS.

I have never had DCS but I have had a few bouts with hypothermia and it is easy to be every bit as confused and dippy as you were. It is also a good idea to rewarm before driving.

Please let us know how things work out with the suit.


michael

 

[mlove]

kaffphine,

Everyone posted lots of good advice here. I just wonder if you are correct about the water temp. Like alot of divers in this area I dive the PA quarries from time to time. I think the water had to be colder then 42 this time of year. Even in summer 42 at 60' is possible. That could explain why you felt the cold. It was cold!!

Stay warm,
mike

 

[Kaffphine]

Ok. First off, Pipedope-"You were trying to dial in a new dry suit on a *cold*, *night* dive! ??? " Yes, almost if not more than half of my dives have been at night so other than bringing my lights with me I don't think too much of it. I did a drysuit course and so had the pool time and two day dives with it. Not much time I know, but I'm comfortable with night dives, the guys know I'm new with the suit and think I can handle things.

And now.... for tonight!

Air temp was like 30-35, and not raining this time. Water was either 41 or 46F, depends on who you asked (I'll go with my buddy at 41). Vis sucked, not even arm's length. And valentines day, there was more than a few guys MIA tonight and one dive soon-to-be-wife that came (she dives but not tonight) who was letting everyone know how bad it was (jokingly) that she had to go the quarry to spend the day with her man. Lobster mits with a pre-dive warm water dump are AWESOME!!!the water was still warm at the end of the dive!! I could feel my hands and had dexerty at the end of the dive, and pretty close to normal color too. The wrist seals were just replaced, I do need to strech the seals a little more. The only things that changed was the mits, warm water in them, differnt under the underware underware (polyster longjohns), 25mins instead of 30, didn't waste time (in cold water) on fin removal, more food before, after went for George's sauage (as a sub... We've gone though all the jokes). For cutting off 5mins, the mits and diff longjohn I was really surprised at how much a difference it made. Was I cold, yea but this time I was able to quickly warm up. And haven't had any problems with concertration or getting easily distracted. Doing 20-25 mins I can take while I'm building a tolerance to it. Only two things froze tonight and neither were me. The dock got pretty icy. And then went I got home and picked my wet BC out of the trunk the water had frozen. Before I did my first dive up here I wasn't sure if diving would have the same strong pull for me (had to find out though)... it doesn't. I wanna dive more! There is soo many different way to take your diving, much more divers, everyone more than open to questions, strangely I just might be starting to like the cold.. in short I like it up here. So, right now I'm doing one 20-25min a dive a week and when I'm really really comfortable with the drysuit and mits see where I end up ...on my way to NJ wrecks.

 

[ScubaJorgen]

Good to hear that!

I guess that would be one of the worst things that can happen. Not being able to dive again.....

Bye :wave: