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So, Will Shearwater offer Gas Integration

Discussion in 'Shearwater Research' started by guyharrisonphoto, Nov 14, 2014.

  1. scubadada

    scubadada Diver Staff Member ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Philadelphia and Boynton Beach
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    I currently dive an Oceanic VT3 primary with a Geo2 and SPG backup. The VT3 runs DSAT only, the Geo2 is dual algorithm, I run it in DSAT also. I really like DSAT for recreational dives but it is suboptimal for decompression. Personally I would love an AI Petrel for a new primary. I would appreciate the ability to choose the gradient factors. I do not want the "Guppy", mentioned above.

    I would imagine there is a reasonable size market ready for an AI Petrel
     
  2. Dhboner

    Dhboner DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Toronto
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    At the risk of continuing to administer corporal punishment to a deceased equine....Shearwater builds computers that are targeted to the technical dive community (they work EXTREMELY well as a recreational computer but their design philosophy is clearly technical diver oriented). Technical divers are trained from very early on to reduce or eliminate potential failure points and develop the skills to be self-reliant. AI computers introduce a failure point and serve absolutely no purpose if the diver is self aware and has done proper gas planning. If you are well trained and dive a lot you rely on the SPG only to confirm what you already know. Shearwater has carved out its niche in the computer market and they make an exceptional product. Those of us who love them appreciate that the company directs it resources towards developing reliable computers that provide essential information without unnecessary and less reliable "frills". If you like to use an AI computer there are dozens of them out there.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2014
    davetowz and victorzamora like this.
  3. Lorenzoid

    Lorenzoid idling in neutral buoyancy

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Atlanta, USA
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    Are an electronic compass and Bluetooth "frills"? Or is only something that could be a potential failure point a frill?
     
    anthonypfesta likes this.
  4. Dhboner

    Dhboner DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Toronto
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    The electronic compass is fine as long as it doesn't eat battery power and you carry a back-up compass if navigation is an issue on the dive. Blue Tooth connectivity is a dryland problem. I define "frills" as features that can better be managed by the diver's training and experience or that serve no useful purpose to a well trained diver. If Shearwater decides to offer AI or even the ability to play "Angry Birds" on a deco stop I am not going to boycott their products or think any less of them as a company, I just applaud them for making a rock solid reliable computer and don't see any need to add features that IMHO can make the diver complacent.
     
  5. drrich2

    drrich2 Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 200 - 499
    Location: Southwestern Kentucky
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    Dhboner:

    I see your point and you articulately lay it out well. The irony for me is that a Petrel has a lot of technical capability that is useless to most recreational divers for the simple reason they'll never use it, from what I understand. Hence the recreational mode, I presume? Yet a number of people recommend them to fairly new recreational divers. I wonder what % of tec. divers use their Petrels to nearly the fullest? Feature creep can clutter an interface when they're features you don't use, in addition to potential failure points related to hardware complexity.

    I don't want Shearwater to compromise their offerings to the technical community. It would be very interesting to see whether a separate recreational model based off the Petrel could sell well.

    Richard.
     
    anthonypfesta, dmoore19 and Dhboner like this.
  6. AJ

    AJ Solo Diver

    # of Dives: 500 - 999
    Location: Netherlands
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    Compass: yes, Bluetooth: depends. I will use my trusty old analog compass even if the Petrel offers a digital version. The Petrel compass will be my backup at best. Bluetooth comes in handy for analyzing dives on the PC. So it is not neccesary, but a very nice feature to have.
    Neither does bother me though ;-)
     
    Dhboner likes this.
  7. tstormdiver

    tstormdiver Instructor, Scuba

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Kentucky
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    I use my Petrel for both technical & recreational diving. I do not yet use the Trimix portion of the computer, as I am not (yet) Trimix certified.I have the VPM algorithm installed on my units, so that leaves me with many options for either GF Buhlmann or VPM. I do use it as a stand alone back- up to my controller on my Prism2, as it runs very close to the controller by keeping track of constant PPO2. So, that being said, I use most of the functions on it. I personally do not even change to the recreational mode when recreational diving with it, I just run it as/is. Laziness I guess.... I am looking to actually get a second Petrel to be a back- up when open circuit diving either recreational or technical. I currently have an Oceanic VT4.0 with an AI transmitter & find I always default to my SPG I have on my regulator also, out of habit I guess. I am not at all fond of the electronic compass on it, as it takes me off the main dive screen & I lose contact with the important dive info I need.
     
    Dhboner likes this.
  8. scubadada

    scubadada Diver Staff Member ScubaBoard Supporter

    # of Dives: 1,000 - 2,499
    Location: Philadelphia and Boynton Beach
    10,378
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    Dh,

    You're narrow minded and inflexible, go get several hundred more dives and then tell me what to wish for. Shearwater will decide what they offer, we'll see.

    Good diving, Craig
     
  9. Dhboner

    Dhboner DIR Practitioner

    # of Dives: I just don't log dives
    Location: Toronto
    1,178
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    You have no way of knowing how many dives I have logged since I was certified in 1971 but I assure you it's LOTS. As for being narrow minded and inflexible, well, if participating in an on-line debate and having an opinion makes me so then I guess I will just have to live with that

    ---------- Post added November 15th, 2014 at 04:18 PM ----------

    ...and before you point it out, I haven't updated my Scubaboard profile in ages but I do have considerably more than 200-499 dives.
     
    rhwestfall and victorzamora like this.
  10. victorzamora

    victorzamora Solo Diver

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    The recreational mode lays out information differently, all about reducing tech-oriented data and making rec-relevant data bigger. Convenient for rec dives where deeper info isn't as important.

    Due to the reliability, durability, and screen. Plus, they'll never need features not present in the Petrel. If a rec-only diver is wanting the absolute best computer and the price is of no object, the Petrel is the clear winner. There are more expensive computers, and there are more "feature"-rich computer, but no computer (in the opinion of many of us) performs better under ANY circumstances.

    I think it depends on what you mean by "fullest." I'd bet nobody has ever pushed a Petrel to the fullest if you mean pushing it to the point of it breaking. However, I'd bet nearly all Tech divers use it to its fullest extent if you mean in the fact that it's easy to read, customizable, runs deco algorithms, is easy to use, etc. In some ways, I use it to its fullest extent....and I'm not even 'mix certified.

    One reason why I don't want all the other useless crap. There's more to fail from a hardware point, more clutter at/around where I'm looking, and I don't want the firmware to have to do any more than I need. The more complicated it is, the more likely it is to crash and the more it drains your battery.

    This is why Tech divers are so adamant in not wanting Petrel to "sell out" to the useless bells and whistles rec divers sometimes think they need but are really just clutter and failure points. If Shearwater were to sell a "Rec only" option, it'd be no big deal to me....but their focus, specialty, and money should go towards making their bread and butter better.

    I won't be boycotting Petrel due to the compass, but I will probably disable mine when I get a second Petrel.
     
    Dhboner likes this.

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