Snorkeling death

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Seems like a number of medical problems could lead to the death of a 70 year old other than this mask.

Even if the mask increases CO2 (apparently there is debate whether it does), that would not explain a death. CO2 is a stimulant to breath. It would make one uncomfortable and likely cause the person to instinctively remove the mask to get air. This woman was very used to being in the water, so it's unlikely she would panic to the extent of drowning herself. She would pull the mask off, take some breaths and think to herself, "I can't breath with this thing." Then she would go back to conventional gear and live on.

I doubt there is a single consumer item that doesn't get negative reviews, even if most people love it. This mask may be a piece of junk, but I can't see it killing a person so experienced in the water.
 
Hello to all. First of all, I'm incredibly sorry to hear of this incident and I would offer my condolences to all involved and hurt.

Also, I'd like to come clean on something even though I'm a new poster: if you read my profile info, you'll see I'm listed as "working for a diving brand", the brand in particular is "Subea" (new in 2017) which was known as "Tribord" up until this year. These brands are parts of an international sports retailer known as Decathlon which is known in many places all over the world, but scarcely known in the USA.

We are the original brand which brought these masks into mass production (the Easybreath) and are selling them in many countries across the world. Which is why I'd like to clarify some things about them given this incident, even if I normally wouldn't speak about commerce one way or another (joined this board because of my personal interest in scuba diving / freediving).

1)Why make something like this?

*The need to make this mask was established by extensive enquires by our people asking beachgoers who were afraid or uncomfortable going into the ocean about their fears. One of the most heard complaints was that many of those people had tried snorkeling but were unable to get accustomed to not being able to breathe through the nose and they had trouble clearing the snorkel.

One of the main goals of our company is making sports accessible, therefore we took to producing the snorkeling mask.​

2)Challenges faced during the development process?

*The biggest challenge was the issue of preventing the user from breathing in their own CO2 and conforming the new concept to strict EU rules (company's head seat is in France). That process took years. Eventually however, our engineers managed to conform the Easybreath mask to the EU rules by making sure that exhaled air doesn't come into contact with inhaled air.

*If you inspect one of the masks and remove the upper snorkel part, you will observe that there are three compartments. Air enters in through the middle part, then exits through the hollow white ridges on the sides, as explained in following video. In addition to that, the product features a drytop snorkel which prevents water from entering in.
Please note that this product did receive a CE rating by the EU and should therefore be as safe to use as a regular snorkel in terms of dead space.
3)Problems that remain with the facemask?

*First and most importantly: you can NOT freedive with this mask. It is simply not what it is meant for and every salesperson in our employ has been briefed to inform a client about to purchase one of this fact. The info is also displayed on every leaflet attached to the mask and every infographic in the stores themselves. That problem is simply because there is too much air trapped inside: trying to freedive with it is like attempting to push a balloon underwater, plus: you can't clear your ears.

*Freedivers and divers are NOT the demographic of users intended for this product. As said previously, this product is intented solely for surface snorkelers who feel uncomfortable breathing through a regular snorkel and / or wish a wide view and no fogging.


*A different problem was the children's size. That size was not dangerous given that it was smaller and had a reduced amount of dead space. However, children thought of the mask as a reserve of air when making shallow dives underwater, therefore creating an underpressure in the mask when breathing in the remaining air while making shallow freedives. This caused difficulty in breathing when resurfacing as the drytop system could get stuck. Therefore we have removed the children's size entirely and discourage the use of the mask for anyone under 10 years of age.

*A final problem is the large amount of copies flooding the market. As the patent on the snorkeling mask has expired, numerous copies have surfaced. Those are almost universally more pricey than the original which costs €29.99, but could initially not be purchased in the USA. We have no control over the quality of those copies (the mask in the incident was a copy, given that it lacked our logo).
There are some additional facts to consider, like heavy breathing potentially sucking in one of the valves and causing a leak (problem can easily be fixed). Men with hefty beards also can not use the product.

If the product in question would have been a genuine Easybreath, I'm 100% sure the cause of this horrible incident could not have been CO2 poisoning. That said, if any of you have additional questions or concerns, I would be happy to answer them or even send them over to our production staff.
 
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Wonder if an alternate design that had a mouthpiece in the mask like a traditional snorkel could guarantee that co2 was expelled on every breath. With the face/nose still giving the user a clear view.

It is probably a surface only design, being a high volume mask. More work getting the head to submerge with all that volume.
This is a surface only design, as there is no way to compensate your ears. The design is dry snorkel, so no flooding if you are in the upright position. If you dive upside-down, the dry valve will open and a flooding can occur.
 
My non diving wife with mild thalassophobia (she can snorkel, but won't dive) was considering getting one of those new full facemask snorkels for our upcoming trip to Turks and Caicos. I just saw this.

How One Woman's Snorkeling Death Might Help Save Lives

Anyone have any opinions or insights?

Full face snorkels are great of Bahamian beaches with no current or any possible way for water to enter the mask. I've witnessed three ocean reef refunds at my shop as irate customers came in exclaiming they had to rip the mask off their face to get the water out.
 
Full face snorkels are great of Bahamian beaches with no current or any possible way for water to enter the mask. I've witnessed three ocean reef refunds at my shop as irate customers came in exclaiming they had to rip the mask off their face to get the water out.

It's not a substitute for a CCR. It is what it is. And not all brands are any good - there are some knockoffs out there. And sometimes, people need to know how to use it, adjust it, fit it, etc... A non-diver who just buys it and tries it out on their own might just give up rather than fix it.

I don't know what happened with your customers, but we had a bunch of non-divers try these when we were in Turks and they all did fine. I think that reasonable expectations are appropriate, for any piece of gear.
 
I've sold over 100 of the Mares brand. Not one complaint and many compliments.
 
I can't speak to the full face snorkel mask, a need for them, how much fun they are, how well they do or do not work and what can or cannot happen with them and if they are or are not leak proof and if there is indeed such a thing like an actually dry snorkel. I have an opinion, but it does not matter what that is. However, I can offer this thought on a snorkel - inspired by my wife who for decades was very water phobic and panicky (that seems to be taking a turn towards "diving" these days):

If the snorkel is wet you blow it out - normally (at the surface). Normally that is learn-able and simple and reliable - but that is not the point the point is:

If it is wet the other, unlearned way, of dealing with it is to raise the mouth above the surface - like any swimmer would, spit out the snorkel mouth piece and just breathe w/o it. The period of time it takes to go from mouth full of water to mouth full of air is only extremely marginally longer than the same period of time for someone swimming on the surface w/o a snorkel. If the person using the snorkel can spit the mouth piece out, that person can remove the water from the mouth and breath in an instant ... by performing the imho most natural instinctive reaction. Getting to air fast, in my mind means panic onset avoided or not let go in full swing at which point it is to late.

When my wife was still that panicky water person, showing her how easy it is to get to air laying on the surface with a snorkel in the mouth even if the whole "blow it out thing" does not work or is forgotten and having her try it many times (just lift the head, spit it out, breathe - take as much time as you want to decide what to do next... left an impression and got her to try it...

So, what happens when somehow water find it's way into a well strapped on full face snorkel mask? How long does it take to get it off and get to "air"? Is that different with long hair than w/o? Could it take any longer than spitting out the mouthpiece of a full of water snorkel? I do not know. BUT: Even if it normally does not take longer, but could occasionally take longer, then I would have told my wife the snorkel is better for her - for the reason pointed out.
 
Hello to all. First of all, I'm incredibly sorry to hear of this incident and I would offer my condolences to all involved and hurt.

Also, I'd like to come clean on something even though I'm a new poster: if you read my profile info, you'll see I'm listed as "working for a diving brand", the brand in particular is "Subea" (new in 2017) which was known as "Tribord" up until this year. These brands are parts of an international sports retailer known as Decathlon which is known in many places all over the world, but scarcely known in the USA.

We are the original brand which brought these masks into mass production (the Easybreath) and are selling them in many countries across the world. Which is why I'd like to clarify some things about them given this incident, even if I normally wouldn't speak about commerce one way or another (joined this board because of my personal interest in scuba diving / freediving).

1)Why make something like this?

*The need to make this mask was established by extensive enquires by our people asking beachgoers who were afraid or uncomfortable going into the ocean about their fears. One of the most heard complaints was that many of those people had tried snorkeling but were unable to get accustomed to not being able to breathe through the nose and they had trouble clearing the snorkel.

One of the main goals of our company is making sports accessible, therefore we took to producing the snorkeling mask.​

2)Challenges faced during the development process?

*The biggest challenge was the issue of preventing the user from breathing in their own CO2 and conforming the new concept to strict EU rules (company's head seat is in France). That process took years. Eventually however, our engineers managed to conform the Easybreath mask to the EU rules by making sure that exhaled air doesn't come into contact with inhaled air.

*If you inspect one of the masks and remove the upper snorkel part, you will observe that there are three compartments. Air enters in through the middle part, then exits through the hollow white ridges on the sides, as explained in following video. In addition to that, the product features a drytop snorkel which prevents water from entering in.
Please note that this product did receive a CE rating by the EU and should therefore be as safe to use as a regular snorkel in terms of dead space.
3)Problems that remain with the facemask?

*First and most importantly: you can NOT freedive with this mask. It is simply not what it is meant for and every salesperson in our employ has been briefed to inform a client about to purchase one of this fact. The info is also displayed on every leaflet attached to the mask and every infographic in the stores themselves. That problem is simply because there is too much air trapped inside: trying to freedive with it is like attempting to push a balloon underwater, plus: you can't clear your ears.

*Freedivers and divers are NOT the demographic of users intended for this product. As said previously, this product is intented solely for surface snorkelers who feel uncomfortable breathing through a regular snorkel and / or wish a wide view and no fogging.


*A different problem was the children's size. That size was not dangerous given that it was smaller and had a reduced amount of dead space. However, children thought of the mask as a reserve of air when making shallow dives underwater, therefore creating an underpressure in the mask when breathing in the remaining air while making shallow freedives. This caused difficulty in breathing when resurfacing as the drytop system could get stuck. Therefore we have removed the children's size entirely and discourage the use of the mask for anyone under 10 years of age.

*A final problem is the large amount of copies flooding the market. As the patent on the snorkeling mask has expired, numerous copies have surfaced. Those are almost universally more pricey than the original which costs €29.99, but could initially not be purchased in the USA. We have no control over the quality of those copies (the mask in the incident was a copy, given that it lacked our logo).
There are some additional facts to consider, like heavy breathing potentially sucking in one of the valves and causing a leak (problem can easily be fixed). Men with hefty beards also can not use the product.

If the product in question would have been a genuine Easybreath, I'm 100% sure the cause of this horrible incident could not have been CO2 poisoning. That said, if any of you have additional questions or concerns, I would be happy to answer them or even send them over to our production staff.

Since you seem to indicate the product "earned" a CE mark such as if it was a TÜV or a UL mark (those actually are earned after passing certain test criteria and are given by those organisations which is not the case really with CE marks), please allow these questions:
1.) Which of the 24 CE directive numbers (product categories) applies to your product?
2.) What organisation performed which kind of tests for the purpose of testing adherence or passing of which standard and then "gave you a CE mark?

I am, a bit long in the tooth on my knowledge there but that's not how I recall CE marks work.
Don't take my word, I quote:

CE is not like other certification marks.
The Canadian Standards Association (CSA) or the Underwriters’ Laboratories (UL) marks, for example, can only be used when those organizations have determined that a product meets applicable standards. European organizations do not grant authorization to use the CE mark as it is not owned by any particular body. The manufacturer is responsible for its proper use.

The manufacturer, whether established inside or outside the EU, is ultimately responsible for affixing the CE mark and is also responsible for its proper use. The manufacturer established outside the EU may appoint an authorized representative established in the EU to act on his behalf. CE marking is about more than affixing a symbol to a product.

Source: Six Steps to CE Marking
 

So what was your point? That without knowing which exactly CE directives apply to the product, you can't tell? -- Some of them require adherence to specific standards, some don't, some require third-party assessment, some don't? Well, they all require a full set of technical documentation that spells out, among the other things, exactly which directives the product complies with and exactly how it does that. All you gotta do it ask.

That's what your link says.
 
So what was your point? That without knowing which exactly CE directives apply to the product, you can't tell? -- Some of them require adherence to specific standards, some don't, some require third-party assessment, some don't? Well, they all require a full set of technical documentation that spells out, among the other things, exactly which directives the product complies with and exactly how it does that. All you gotta do it ask.

That's what your link says.

What is your point?
Are you questioning if I understand what what the link I quoted says?
If so, the answer is that I do.

Did I not ask two specific and to the point questions?
I am awaiting an answer.
Until I have one I would be hard pressed about having a point wouldn't I.
 
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