Skipping Hydro

[UaVaj]

I might consider 175 . . . a piece . . . as I don;t know if I am going to loose my money in a year when I go to hydro them. and you aren;t gonna give me my money back if they fail because you have overfilled/improperly filled them.

LMFAO - worthington steel tanks fails hydro. You kidding me.

How about $250 my price and you go the extra $50 to get it hydro. If it fails. They will be my scrap metal. If they pass. You get 2 like new HP120 for $300 each and I get to buy 2 new HP120 for $360.

So rather you hydro them today or next year. I will be out $120 for new tanks.

 

[UaVaj]

Hazmat, which is what a scuba cylinder really is, applies to individuals and private persons.
Hazmat is the one exception to the rule in commerce. That said, if you exceed the placard quantity for a given material, that automatically makes you a commercial carrier and you must follow all laws and regulations as such. AKA if you have more than 1,000 lbs of scuba cylinders in your vehicle you better have placards, a CDL with an H endorsment, and all training and paper work to go with it. The gov really does not want private individuals transporting quantites of hazmat materials, which is rightly so.

I will never ever exceed 1000lb of scuba cylinder. That is like equalivent of 20 full HP120 steel tanks.

Thanks for the clarification. Is that figure accurate? Please link.

 

[fppf]

I could be wrong, things do change and one person can't keep up with everything. I'd greatly appreciate your citing a reference, or at least an authority, for this.

FMCSA regulations 49 CFR section 100-180, specifically section 170

http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/rules-regulations.htm

Or call your local DOT officer and ask them about it.
For personal items your most likely not going to get much attention. Most people don't have 20 or so cylinders they load up in there vehicle and drive off. But most officers I talk to say if you have a placard quantity they see you as commercial. I have driven wreckers for a good number of years, have a good friend that is the owner of a CDL training school and I have a class A with all endorsements.

Now, if your a DM or instructor and you load your vehicle with 1000 lbs or more and take off to training. That vehicle needs to follow ALL hazmat rules and regs without a doubt.

The real issue here is not with LEO's. Its the lawyers, because if your transporting a cylinder that is outside of hydro, industry standards are not being met. If something happens you better bet your first born that lawyer is going to hang you by that in a civil case. Its just not worth exposing your self to the risks to save $10 a year.

 

[letterboy]

FMCSA regulations 49 CFR section 100-180, specifically section 170

Rules & Regulations - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

Or call your local DOT officer and ask them about it.
For personal items your most likely not going to get much attention. Most people don't have 20 or so cylinders they load up in there vehicle and drive off. But most officers I talk to say if you have a placard quantity they see you as commercial. I have driven wreckers for a good number of years, have a good friend that is the owner of a CDL training school and I have a class A with all endorsements.

Now, if your a DM or instructor and you load your vehicle with 1000 lbs or more and take off to training. That vehicle needs to follow ALL hazmat rules and regs without a doubt.

The real issue here is not with LEO's. Its the lawyers, because if your transporting a cylinder that is outside of hydro, industry standards are not being met. If something happens you better bet your first born that lawyer is going to hang you by that in a civil case. Its just not worth exposing your self to the risks to save $10 a year.

Interesting point . . IDK how many times I drove the LDS van to the pool/quarry with 20+ cylinders in it . . .

 

[Thalassamania]

FMCSA regulations 49 CFR section 100-180, specifically section 170

Rules & Regulations - Federal Motor Carrier Safety Administration

Or call your local DOT officer and ask them about it.
For personal items your most likely not going to get much attention. Most people don't have 20 or so cylinders they load up in there vehicle and drive off. But most officers I talk to say if you have a placard quantity they see you as commercial. I have driven wreckers for a good number of years, have a good friend that is the owner of a CDL training school and I have a class A with all endorsements.

Now, if your a DM or instructor and you load your vehicle with 1000 lbs or more and take off to training. That vehicle needs to follow ALL hazmat rules and regs without a doubt.

The real issue here is not with LEO's. Its the lawyers, because if your transporting a cylinder that is outside of hydro, industry standards are not being met. If something happens you better bet your first born that lawyer is going to hang you by that in a civil case. Its just not worth exposing your self to the risks to save $10 a year.

I can't speak to DM or Instructors with more than 1000 lbs of tanks ... but as far as private individuals are concerned ... I think you're wrong:

PERSON: As of 01/24/2005
Person means an individual, firm, copartnership, corporation, company, association, or joint-stock association (including any trustee, receiver, assignee, or similar representative); or a government or Indian tribe (or an agency or instrumentality of any government or Indian tribe) that transports a hazardous material to further a commercial enterprise or offers a hazardous material for transportation in commerce.

A private individual who is NOT furthering a commercial enterprise or offering a hazardous material for transportation in commerce, does not appear to be covered, just I had originally thought. And since the Federal government does not have any authority over intra-state commerce I suspect that they have no authority over even commercial enterprises that do not cross state lines, that would include DMs, and Instructors, as long as they do not cross state lines.

I'd be interested in a definitive answer.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

Excsuse me for not reading the whole thread, but this is a no brainer (and the argument is not one of legal versus illegal).

I have my own compressor and because of that, I have hydro tests every 5 years and I do my own visual inspections and O2 cleaning - and I am as picky as, and in most cases far pickier than, any shop I have seen because I am the guy filling the tank.

If anyone has their own compressor and decides to skip a hydro, they are clearly a moron.

 

[redacted]

Excsuse me for not reading the whole thread, but this is a no brainer (and the argument is not one of legal versus illegal).

I have my own compressor and because of that, I have hydro tests every 5 years and I do my own visual inspections and O2 cleaning - and I am as picky as, and in most cases far pickier than, any shop I have seen because I am the guy filling the tank.

If anyone has their own compressor and decides to skip a hydro, they are clearly a moron.

What is magical about 5 years? Yes, they had to set a workable standard and a fixed time period is probably the best solution for workable. But if time the most workable but not the primary underlying independent variable for hydro failures, then is it really such a bad idea to extend the hydro period for tanks you control and fill?

 

[Luis H]

Actually from a structural stand point, if I know the history of the tank from the last hydro, I would have no problem filling a tank that is out of hydro.

The metal on a steel or aluminum doesn’t deteriorate just by age.

If a tank has been in my house and has not been exposed to fire (or a source of high heat), it has not received any significant mechanical damage (gauge, dents, etc.), and I have inspected it and confirmed that there is no significant rust (during its history since the last hydro), a hydro is not going to give me any significant information that I don’t already know.

In this kind of situation a careful visual inspection is actually more informative than a hydro test. I know it will pass hydro if I know the history of the tank.

Do I recommend that other skip hydro… absolutely not. A hydro is a cheep and effective way of obtaining structural information of a pressure vessel.

I do agree with Captain in post #8 above. IMO, he is qualified enough to also make that kind of decision and even if he was a taking a risk (which he is not if he is careful), he is not really endangering anyone else.

Again, I do not recommend anyone skipping hydro’s… just because it is a fairly reliable form of obtaining structural information from a pressure vessel… they are simple and are not that expensive.


Note: Notice the heavy use of words such as “significant” which implies a judgment call. For that reason skipping a hydro falls under the category of “don’t try this at home”.

 

[fppf]

I'm just telling you what I have been told, and what I have seen in the field. And all federal regulations apply even if your not crossing state lines. You still need a log, med card, and follow all the rest of the laws.

You can interpret the laws anyway you want, its your right. But just remember, its how the guy with the badge, the robe, and 12 people on the bench thinks it works.

 

[halocline]

$50 is a very expensive hydro. If you take the tanks directly to the hydro facility, like almost any fire extinguisher place, it should cost more like $15.

If you want to sell the tanks, get them hydro'ed first. You will find that tanks with a fresh hydro increase in value much more than the cost of the hydro.

The question to me is, if you are diving 100 dives in 5 years (did I read that right?) and have your own compressor, why on earth would you need or even want 6 HP120s?