Question Skipping AOW

[rob.mwpropane]

I'm a PADI OW diver with a few dozen additional dives under my belt. I am certain that I'm going to keep diving, and so I'm committed to learning skills to safely dive for the environments and goals of my diving (note: it'll be rec level, though at some point I can see myself as at least a DM semi-pro, and doing some light zone cavern or wreck diving).

I've been looking at my options, and in my area (far away from my original certifcation site) it's PADI versus SSI. I'm not married to PADI, and am familiar with the professional association reciprocity (I'd really like to do GUE or RAID, but there aren't any locations for several hundred miles). I've looked at AOW/Advanced Adventurer but my initial impression is that it would be redundant for what I want to do-- I don't want to do AOW/AA and then go out and hang myself with the just enough rope that they've given me in teaching the specialties. I'd much prefer to do the full specialty courses and have a broader foundation to continue learning and diving.

With SSI, I can enroll in what I feel to be the most appropriate speciality courses (Navigation, Night, Deep, Nitrox, Stress and Rescue) as an OW diver, whereas with PADI, some of the specialties (ie, Deep) require AOW/AA as a prerequisite.

I understand that AOW/AA dives can count towards specialty ratings, but with my classes around here, I'm going to be doing the full specialty dive schedule regardless of past dives if I enroll in a specialty course, and even though I will take any opportunity to dive that I can, I don't want to spend several hundreds of dollars on the AOW/AA course if I'm going to wind up taking the "full" courses anyway.

So my questions are:
1) Does the AOW/AA course provide any information that would not be related by taking the full courses listed above?

2) If I'm not AOW/AA rated but have appropriate SSI specialty ratings, would I have any difficulty booking dives "in the real world?" (specific instance: there are a couple of 70-80 foot dive sites I'd like to dive locally--would they give me grief about not having AOW/AA if I had SSI deep?)

3) If they would give me grief, is it possible to retroactively get AOW/AA if I have the specialty courses and associated dives under my belt?

Thanks for any advice!

****Take what I say with a grain of salt. I don't travel a lot. When I do I always opt to pick boats that are less "hand holding" and more loose.

I have never been asked to show my "AOW" card. Sometimes I've been asked to justify my competence (like when was your last dive or how often) and once was asked for referrals for a tech dive. I've managed this in the St. Lawrence, MD, NC, and FL without any issues at all.

For me personally AOW was a bs money grab... I "graduated" AOW with 9 dives total, 4 of which were for OW. Then I hit the brakes and really focused on just diving and not cards. I fell in with some pretty great people that allowed me to follow their lead, jumped into drysuit and doubles (without anymore cards) and slowly worked my way up to longer, deeper dives. My last "card" was AN/DP, which makes sense because it it extends bottom times considerably.

I realize that this isn't everyone's experience with AOW. Maybe if I was with a different shop I would feel differently. I also realize that some people have an inherent fear of water (like my wife). They're just more comfortable doing a bunch of dives with an instructor and that makes sense for those types of people.

I've said it plenty of times before, I would rather dive with someone who's OW with 150 dives in the last 3 years then someone with AOW and only 9 dives any day of the week.

 

[Bob DBF]

I wondered about that. It would be interesting to try if you have an upcoming dive trip. Present your PADI Deep Diver card instead. See what they say. They should accept it, but who knows. Their policy may be poorly written to specify AOW, in which case, I wonder If SSI AA would work. Policy should allow a suitable specialty to work as well, but who knows.

Since AOW requires both Deep and Nav, I would assume they would expect both. Also, SSI AOW does not require either specialty to recieve the card.

 

[scubadada]

I wondered about that. It would be interesting to try if you have an upcoming dive trip. Present your PADI Deep Diver card instead. See what they say. They should accept it, but who knows. Their policy may be poorly written to specify AOW, in which case, I wonder If SSI AA would work. Policy should allow a suitable specialty to work as well, but who knows.

I only know PADI. Adventure Diver (or equivalent) is a prerequisite for Deep Diver. So, you need 3 adventure dives (none specifically required, i.e. not deep or navigation) before you can do deep. I can't imagine why one would choose to do that rather than just doing the 5 dives and getting AOW to clearly meet the requirement.

 

[Eric Sedletzky]

They just need to call PADI AOW what it is, SPD
Sample Platter Diver.
Or BPD, Boat Pass Diver.

 

[rob.mwpropane]

They just need to call PADI AOW what it is, SPD
Sample Platter Diver.
Or BPD, Boat Pass Diver.

This could not be more accurate.

 

[Belzelbub]

Since AOW requires both Deep and Nav, I would assume they would expect both. Also, SSI AOW does not require either specialty to recieve the card.

Yeah, true. You can get an SSI AOW card with mostly frivolous specialties, but those specialties would be listed on the card. So, it should be obvious that a diver with a low number of dives and an AOW card listing Waves Tides & Currents, Mermaid, Fish ID, and Equipment Techniques may not be ready to dive the Spiegel Grove in strong currents.

This is my concern with a dive op just looking for the word Advanced or AOW as they can be satisfied in very different ways.

I only know PADI. Adventure Diver (or equivalent) is a prerequisite for Deep Diver. So, you need 3 adventure dives (none specifically required, i.e. not deep or navigation) before you can do deep. I can't imagine why one would choose to do that rather than just doing the 5 dives and getting AOW to clearly meet the requirement.

Yep, agreed. I can't imagine why one would go that path, but I also don't understand why that is a prerequisite for Deep. I'm more familiar with SSI, and only OW is required for Deep. The Deep specialty should contain everything a diver needs to learn for that cert. Requiring Adventure or AOW for further learning just feels a bit like a money grab.

 

[Tracy]

AOW is hard to escape. I was full trimix, full cave, and CCR trained when I took AOW. I had never taken it when I decided to become an instructor. It is a requirement to get DM which is a prerequisite to OWSI.
If you have aspirations of teaching down the road, go ahead and take it now while you will get something out of it. It is very annoying to take 10 years later when you have at least a thousand more dives than the instructor teaching it.

 

[Bob DBF]

Yeah, true. You can get an SSI AOW card with mostly frivolous specialties, but those specialties would be listed on the card.

How many would look further than AOW on the card?

I can't imagine why one would go that path, but I also don't understand why that is a prerequisite for Deep.

Well, at least they know you had 5 dives, one of which is greater than 60 feet.

Their system has has a path of instruction that builds on previous instruction, it seems to work for them, SSI has a different path, which works for them, so it's all good.

 

[bdatud4x4]

I'm a PADI OW diver with a few dozen additional dives under my belt. I am certain that I'm going to keep diving, and so I'm committed to learning skills to safely dive for the environments and goals of my diving (note: it'll be rec level, though at some point I can see myself as at least a DM semi-pro, and doing some light zone cavern or wreck diving).

I've been looking at my options, and in my area (far away from my original certifcation site) it's PADI versus SSI. I'm not married to PADI, and am familiar with the professional association reciprocity (I'd really like to do GUE or RAID, but there aren't any locations for several hundred miles). I've looked at AOW/Advanced Adventurer but my initial impression is that it would be redundant for what I want to do-- I don't want to do AOW/AA and then go out and hang myself with the just enough rope that they've given me in teaching the specialties. I'd much prefer to do the full specialty courses and have a broader foundation to continue learning and diving.

With SSI, I can enroll in what I feel to be the most appropriate speciality courses (Navigation, Night, Deep, Nitrox, Stress and Rescue) as an OW diver, whereas with PADI, some of the specialties (ie, Deep) require AOW/AA as a prerequisite.

I understand that AOW/AA dives can count towards specialty ratings, but with my classes around here, I'm going to be doing the full specialty dive schedule regardless of past dives if I enroll in a specialty course, and even though I will take any opportunity to dive that I can, I don't want to spend several hundreds of dollars on the AOW/AA course if I'm going to wind up taking the "full" courses anyway.

So my questions are:
1) Does the AOW/AA course provide any information that would not be related by taking the full courses listed above?

2) If I'm not AOW/AA rated but have appropriate SSI specialty ratings, would I have any difficulty booking dives "in the real world?" (specific instance: there are a couple of 70-80 foot dive sites I'd like to dive locally--would they give me grief about not having AOW/AA if I had SSI deep?)

3) If they would give me grief, is it possible to retroactively get AOW/AA if I have the specialty courses and associated dives under my belt?

Thanks for any advice!

I have been diving for around 25yrs, I'm still rated PADI OW.
I have dove all over Mexico, Bahamas, Florida, I also dive w/drysuit here in Ca. I have never been asked to prove my certs for wreck diving or drysuit. Some of the dives I have done have been at 90-120ft. What I have seen is, most want your last 6 dives and have them within 6months to a yr.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

Just take it. We all had to! (or just about all of us)

This may have been mentioned already, but there are charters in South Florida (Palm Beach County) that now require AOW for some of their recreational trips that are deeper than 60'. And yes, they do card you.