Skin diving around divers on a safety stop

[String]

He does seem to be the most dangerous type of diver.

A fairly inexperienced diver who's convinced he's infallible so wont ever need assistance from anyone at all or even make a single mistake that might need help. And because he's so perfect why should he help anyone else that might have a problem? Better to let them die and clean up the gene pool.

Unfortunately its exactly that type of diver that does have the problems and does need help from others, often endangering them in the process.

I cant see this not being a troll.

 

[psychocabbage]

He does seem to be the most dangerous type of diver.

A fairly inexperienced diver who's convinced he's infallible so wont ever need assistance from anyone at all or even make a single mistake that might need help. And because he's so perfect why should he help anyone else that might have a problem? Better to let them die and clean up the gene pool.

Unfortunately its exactly that type of diver that does have the problems and does need help from others, often endangering them in the process.

I cant see this not being a troll.

If I were a troll, I would certainly not use my standard net name.. I would procede to badger you relentlessly and generally cause a ruckus!


You are suggesting that I am not in control of my own person.. If it looks anywhere near dangerous, then I call no joy and am out.

I dont go where there are rigs or tons of fishing lines.. I really dont ever plan on going to Palau, Austrailia or Hawaii.. I am strictly going to do only warm water dives in places where vis is super high and the current is minimal..

Do I plan aborting dives when something is askew? Yes. by all means, diving is not worth death. (keep in mind I regularly hit 160mph on highways.. haha)

Diving accidents can and will happen. By playing the odds I am helping ensure that they do not happen to me. It is not 100% that I will not encounter any issue but you know what? My dive buddy will be there and together we will have our plan to follow.
Heck, I am sure, being that she is my wife, we will be having a heated note pad debate about what to do next.

I know plenty of people that dive with sharks and other fun items.. That wont be me. Not because I am scared of sharks but mainly because I have 0 desire.. I have been in the water with them already and was not concerned since I know they are not concerned with me but I dont actively go out looking for them. They just share the same space.

I gather that many on here are owners or instructors and as such are super safety conscious.. but I represent that small fraction of us that just dont care and want to have fun..

 

[Al Mialkovsky]

I'm sorry, but I don't see why this is anybody else's business except the skin diver's. No reason to be so uptight about it.

Imagine this. Skin diver is not certified, doesn't know better and holds his breath. Certified diver just killed somone.

 

[psychocabbage]

Imagine this. Skin diver is not certified, doesn't know better and holds his breath. Certified diver just killed somone.

according to half the people on this thread alone, you will give it up freely!

 

[D_B]

Pick and choose, pick and choose
I though that there was two (three) discussions here? ... one about sharing air (or not) with a freediver, one about sharing air (or not) with a diver , one about training ... :shrug: Whatever

(keep in mind I regularly hit 160mph on highways.. haha)

That would be funny coming from someone that says to share his air with someone else is not going to happen if they act like they really need it, because of the risk .. that is if if it wasn't so irresponsible

 

[Kevin Carlisle]

He does seem to be the most dangerous type of diver.

A fairly inexperienced diver who's convinced he's infallible so wont ever need assistance from anyone at all or even make a single mistake that might need help. And because he's so perfect why should he help anyone else that might have a problem? Better to let them die and clean up the gene pool.

Unfortunately its exactly that type of diver that does have the problems and does need help from others, often endangering them in the process.

I cant see this not being a troll.

Absolutely right!!! He really has no knowledge of what can happen. Its not always human error that causes problems. but you can bet that his mis-guided ego will get him in trouble before most of us. I have witnessed two emergencies and that was enough. One due to stupidity, one not.

 

[Thalassamania]

And that is perfectly possible by the standards set by all the agencies. Its down to the instructor to actually do it properly.

Then why don't they? I fear it is because all that most instructors do is the bare minimum required by their agency, so solving the problem requires changing standards.

So the instructor would take some blame for poor teaching (and breaking standards). You cant force a student to learn.
Brutal truth is after the course students dont do things they didnt like at all and forget things.

Speak for yourself. I've never felt that I had to "force" a student to learn anything. Sometimes I have to work harder than other times, sometimes I have to be more creative than other times, but "FORCE?" Never!

No matter how good you are if you dont practice you will lose skills and ability. Short of introducing a mandatory retest you have absolutely no way of compelling students to do these things.

Give people come credit. Most are not congenitally stupid nor are then inherently reckless. People can be taught that they need to practice and they can be taught how to practice and if the instructor does a good job people are perfectly capable of refreshing themselves in a pool before they go or during one day of taking it easy when they arrive. I've looked at this question in rather great detail because of the long periods of inactivity that many of the divers I've trained have ... it's not a big deal, but it does require a higher level of accomplishment that we get from the 20 hour BS that is going on now.

You can teach them the lesson, you can force the mantra of on-going practice needed but you cannot force them to do it once they leave your care. The vast majority of divers after a course dont bother. They've done it, they didnt particularly like some skills but they think they dont need to do it. After all, they've done it before so can do it again if matters. And that mindset continues right up until the time they have to perform a little-used skill and it all goes wrong.

Most divers are NOT regular week in-week-out divers. They dive on holiday for maybe 1 week a year and nothing in between.

All I can say is that our experiences in this area are radically different.

 

[miketsp]

While following this quite entertaining thread that has drifted around a few topics including some related to air-sharing and panic, I thought it was quite a coincidence when my "alert diver" mag arrived in the post and there was an article about coping with out-of-air emergencies.

I'm not going to quote much - if you want to read it all sign up for DAN membership - but there were 3 statistics that I thought very interesting.

The article discussed a recent poll on Scuba STAR Network

One of the questions: Have you ever been involved in an out-of-air situation?
49%: No
33%: Yes, as Donor
12%: Yes, as Receiver

I thought this was really high & why doesn't the donor/receiver percentage match. Is it bragging rights of the donors & the receivers are ashamed to admit it? Or are there really almost 3 donors for every OOA diver? Maybe some of the so-called "same ocean buddies" are paying more attention than we give them credit for?

And another relevant question:
Did you or your buddy panic at any time during the situation?
16%: Yes

Question: How was the out-of-air situation resolved?
75%: Octopus
8%: Redundant Air
8%: Spare Air
4%: Buddy Breath (pass regulator)

 

[caseybird]

All I can say is that our experiences in this area are radically different.

Well, of course you are talking about radically different experiences. Thal refers to the world of academic diving, with DSO's, supervised, reviewed and standardized dive protocols. String is talking about sport diving which represents the majority of divers who dive once or twice a year. The skill level of these divers won't match Thal's academic divers.
Few sport divers are going to train up to the level of competency that Thal expects from his divers. As desireable as that might be, it's not going to happen. Are there any non-academic dive training which matches Thal's courses? BSAC, YMCA, LA county maybe, but they are not widely promoted or widely available. Perhaps they should be more available, but as long as the market rules, that kind of skill level won't be required for an open water cert.
The divers who want to increase thier skill level will find a way. Damn commercial training all you want, but that's the way it's going to be.
None of this has anything to do with the OP of course, or P-cabbage and his knife-of-doom. I just want to know what ocean he's diving in. Or what road he's driving on. Forewarned is forearmed.
String, Thal; I'd love diving with you guys.

 

[Papa_Bear]

Well, of course you are talking about radically different experiences. Thal refers to the world of academic diving, with DSO's, supervised, reviewed and standardized dive protocols. String is talking about sport diving which represents the majority of divers who dive once or twice a year. The skill level of these divers won't match Thal's academic divers.
Few sport divers are going to train up to the level of competency that Thal expects from his divers. As desireable as that might be, it's not going to happen. Are there any non-academic dive training which matches Thal's courses? BSAC, YMCA, LA county maybe, but they are not widely promoted or widely available. Perhaps they should be more available, but as long as the market rules, that kind of skill level won't be required for an open water cert.
The divers who want to increase thier skill level will find a way. Damn commercial training all you want, but that's the way it's going to be.
None of this has anything to do with the OP of course, or P-cabbage and his knife-of-doom. I just want to know what ocean he's diving in. Or what road he's driving on. Forewarned is forearmed.
String, Thal; I'd love diving with you guys.

The best divers in the world are Cave trained divers! If you are cave trained your are one of the best OW divers in the ocean! Nothing including my LA County #000278 comes close! Add the mental stress and it is Zen or beyond! It is the culmination of all skills needed to be the best of the watermen!