Single Layer Bladder Wings -- XDeep Ghost

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NTJB

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I'm considering buying another BP/W and I currently really like my XDeep Ghost, which has been more or less commandeered by my better half. The XDeep Ghost fits all my criteria, it's comfortable, and I'm still just a recreational diver but have been doing a lot more wreck penetrations lately. Nothing huge, just small wrecks that you can get in and out of pretty easily. The biggest draw to the Ghost is that it is quite light, though I haven't handled many BP/Ws so I don't know if they get much heavier. I almost always fly to dive, so every pound counts.

My question is: how important is it, in practice, to have a double layer bladder (from what I understand, the Ghost has a urethane bladder laminated to the denier whereas some wings are more robust with an outer denier shell for protection and a separate bladder inside. I'm not too concerned with ease of repair or cost of replacement, I just want to get an idea of how "dangerous" a single layer bladder is in practice. Has anyone experienced or seen ruptured/punctured wings on a dive? Does it happen often?

I'm very much in the boat of just buying another XDeep Ghost as I have no complaints with it thus far, but curiosity got to me and I've been looking at what other BP/Ws have that the Ghost doesn't. I realize there is some weight savings with a single layer bladder but was curious what issues have occurred in the real world. Are there really many situations where a double layer wing would have survived where a single layer does not?
 

-Moe

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If you really like your Ghost but want a double layer bladder option I suggest you look at the xDeep Zen.
 

runsongas

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depends on the boats you dive off of. if you are diving boats where pinch flats are possible due to how they set up tanks, you will need to take some care of the wing. having a separate bladder means it can be repaired at a reasonable cost in case of damage to the bladder.
 
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NTJB

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If you really like your Ghost but want a double layer bladder option I suggest you look at the xDeep Zen.

I was worried about the extra weight of the xDeep Zen and the fact that the wing is larger (significantly more lift I think), but maybe that's an option.

depends on the boats you dive off of. if you are diving boats where pinch flats are possible due to how they set up tanks, you will need to take some care of the wing. having a separate bladder means it can be repaired at a reasonable cost in case of damage to the bladder.

What exactly is a pinch flat?
 

NothingClever

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Also an XDeep owner. I dive the Zeos 28lb and 40lb wings that have the outer Cordura skin and the separate inner bladder on a steel BP.

I take very good care of my kit but I like the assurance of an external skin that can take rough abrasion without the immediate threat of a puncture or tear of the inner bladder. I strive to swim about without making any contact so the threat of developing a leak during a dive is not very likely.

The outer Cordura skin is important for me because I leave my twinset wing attached to get back and forth in various vehicles to dive shops to get fills in my own tanks. Other people who don’t care for my equipment like I do are handling my gear and will drag my twinset with the wing attached across pavement and tile floors scuffing my wing. I think that’s when the separate layer becomes important. If you’re on rental tanks (remove and replace), in and out of your own vehicle and very few people ever touch your BP/W, then maybe the external skin is not so important and you can assume risk with a single layer wing.

For me, the argument for aluminum over steel BP for travel has proven unimportant. I travel with my steel BP all the time and have not broken my weight limit. Following suit, I think I would find the amount of weight saved with a single layer wing over a double layer wing to be trivial, especially when my wings see duty every weekend. Perhaps the single layer feature is an attractive victory in material design but, for me, not a practical victory.
 

runsongas

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@NTJB specific damage from the plate impacting into the wing where it can sometimes cut through
 

rongoodman

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@NTJB specific damage from the plate impacting into the wing where it can sometimes cut through
With no sign of damage to the outer wing. I showed up for a cave class a number of years ago to find one in my Evolve wing, which I can only assume came about in transit somehow. A little bit of duct tape solved the problem until I could order a new bladder on my return home.
 

runsongas

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xdeep isn't doing themselves any favors with the design and how the wing hangs lower than most others either. the only explanation i can think of for it is to counteract butt heavy 300 bar steel tanks in europe.
 
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