Silica Gel Usage

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Diver Dennis:
The battery heats up the surrounding air. Point and shoot, an Oly I think. Kevin Davidson the Photo Pro at Sam's Tours in Palau told us about it.

Hi, Dennis,

So, using that logic one would assume that there is moisture in the camera and the electrical resistance heating causes it to vaporize. That water vapor then condenses on the glass.

I am just wondering if it would happen regardless of the camera being used? I.e., that the water vapor in the housing just condenses as the housing temperature drops--as a diver descends. The experiment that would have to be done would be to dive with the housed camera and not use it. If it fogged, then it was just the water vapor in the air and had nothing to do with the camera firing. I would hazard a guess that no one has done that experiment...why would they dive with a camera and not use it? Only a former mad scientist such as I would do such a foolish thing!:wink:

All of my housed cameras have been SLR's and I have never experienced that. I am going to check with some camera companies to see what they know.

Hey, and thanks for the neat problem...you never know what will wake you up on a sleepy afternoon...

joewr
 
howarde:
Yeah... P&S cameras heat up more than DSLR cameras. I keep a silica gel pack in Michelle's Canon S70 (we've had fogging issues even when loaded in a room with AC) - but I've never had a fogging issue with my D200, and I don't always load it in an air conditioned room.

I think a good part of the issue with P&S cameras is from the internal flash as well.

Hi, Howard!

Okay, now I am beginning to understand. Actually, it seems more likely that a camera that is put in its housing in an a/c'ed room would suffer from this effect. If it were brought inside from a humid outside, water would tend to condense on it. Even if you dried it, there would be a thin film of water on surfaces you could not see or dry off. Then when/if it heats up due to electrical resistance the water evaporates and condenses on the glass.

And if point and shoot cameras do heat up more than SLR's that would explain the difference.

Well, that would be one theory, any how. And that theory would back Dennis' observation about the value of silica gel in the housing.

Well, I am going to see what the camera gurus know about heat-up with SLR's and P&S cameras....:huh:

Neat stuff, Gang!:D

joewr
 
I have had the issue with a video camera in a housing. As for slow or small leaks use a tampon or two in the bottom of the housing.
 
mikerault:
I have had the issue with a video camera in a housing. As for slow or small leaks use a tampon or two in the bottom of the housing.

Hi, Mike!

If you have such leaks, I would sure consider getting your housing to a shop for rebuild. Normally, leaks get worse, not better. And the deeper you dive, the more likely the problem will cost you a new camera.

My wife uses a digital videocam and she has never seen that problem...we must be diving with the angels...:)

Thanks,

joewr
 
I think that the relatively warm air can hold a certain amount of moisture. When the housing is immersed in colder water, the air in contact with the now cold port cools and can no longer hold the same amount of moisture. This moisture condenses on the port. A dessicant pack in the housing can lower the humidity to a level where even when the air cools on the submerged port, no vapor will condense because it's still below it's saturation point for that temperature. Putting your camera in the housing in an air conditioned room ensures that the air is cold and dry to begin with. I use dessicant packs sometimes. I just make sure that they are newly-recharged (just sitting in a room can cause them to be "saturated" in normal temperature air) and I try to leave them in the housing for at least an hour to let them do their work.
 
I believe that it is the temperature differential combined with the humidity in the housing air that can create condensation. I've had my camera housing fog up one time when the temperature differential was over 40 degrees F. The camera inside the boat was about 85F sitting during the surface interval, and after plunging into 40F water, it fogged up pretty quick. That why I try to keep the camera and housing relatively cool.
 
swankenstein:
I think that the relatively warm air can hold a certain amount of moisture. When the housing is immersed in colder water, the air in contact with the now cold port cools and can no longer hold the same amount of moisture. This moisture condenses on the port. A dessicant pack in the housing can lower the humidity to a level where even when the air cools on the submerged port, no vapor will condense because it's still below it's saturation point for that temperature. Putting your camera in the housing in an air conditioned room ensures that the air is cold and dry to begin with. I use dessicant packs sometimes. I just make sure that they are newly-recharged (just sitting in a room can cause them to be "saturated" in normal temperature air) and I try to leave them in the housing for at least an hour to let them do their work.

Hi, Swankenstein,

You are correct, as the temperature of the air goes up, the amount of water vapor it can contain goes up, too. We usually call it humidity. Scientists call it the partial pressure of water.

Dessicants have the capability of absorbing water--more strongly than, say cotton--and can hold onto it even at elevated temperatures. However, their capacity is limited and when exceeded, they can be dripping wet. There are a variety of dessicants and most rely on a chemical bond being formed between water molecules and the dessicant structure or from adsorption into molecular "tunnels". Sometimes this is easily reversible and they can be regenerated, usually by heating. Since the water molecules have to come into physical contact with the dessicant, air circulation and time are needed. Hence, the wisdom of your letting your closed housing sit for awhile.

What I read was that this fogging phenomenon required that the camera operate. And I have never had such fogging occur with my SLR or my DSLR, whether I closed the housing in an a/c'ed room or a non-a/c'ed room. I have not had it happen to either of my old Nikonoses. Further reading seems to indicate that this is a phenomenon related to P&S cameras heating up.

One more thing...even at low temperatures...such as, say, 80 deg F and lower, air can contain a significant amount of water vapor without condensation occurring. That is why my housed cameras have never fogged: I have never gone past what is called the dew point.

At this point, you might have guessed that I am a chemist:wink: ...and at this point I think I need to stop with all the lingo and jargon.:no Suffice it to say that condensation in housed SLR's is darn rare. So, what we are looking at is something related to the P&S cameras in a humid environment.

I think I understand what is going on, but I need to talk with some P&S camera experts to see just what the temperature rise is when they operate.:confused:

Fun stuff...:)

joewr
 
Warren_L:
I believe that it is the temperature differential combined with the humidity in the housing air that can create condensation. I've had my camera housing fog up one time when the temperature differential was over 40 degrees F. The camera inside the boat was about 85F sitting during the surface interval, and after plunging into 40F water, it fogged up pretty quick. That why I try to keep the camera and housing relatively cool.

Hi, Warren,

Unless your housing leaks, it does not matter what temp you keep it at during an SI. The humidity in question is that at which you closed the housing.

If your housing leaks enough to draw in air during an SI, you will have more than condensation in it when you dive. :no

The critical issue is what the relative humidity(or partial pressure of water) of the air was when you closed the housing and what the partial pressure of water can be at dive temperature. If you go below the dew point of the air/water mixture present when you closed your housing, you will get condensation. Otherwise, it is stable.

Sorry to get so technical, but I am a chemist and this is kinda what I was trained to think about. :blinking:

And it is darned interesting to me!!!!!!!!!!

Thanks,

joewr
 
Hi Joe, I'm not suggesting that the humidity changes. Condensation will occur if the housing is exposed to a sudden change in temperature, such as immersing in cold water. Kind of like taking a can of beer out of the refridgerator, it begins to fog up. If you were able to slowly raise the temperature of that same can, I don't think you'd see the same level of condensation, yet the humidity in the air is still the same. As a result, I try to lessen the temperature differential of the housing by keeping it cool in between dives.
 
joewr:
Hi, Dennis,

Does a camera only heat up in the tropics? And why does it heat up? Are these cameras SLR's or point and shoot? Are they film or digital?

This is really interesting to me because there is so little current generated when a camera works that I have hard time imagining that the associated electrical resistance can cause such heating.

I would like to be educated as to what the root cause is....

Interesting, folks, very interesting...

joewr
Anything that uses electricity will generate heat when operating. Electrical devices aren't 100% efficent. A motor turns electrical power into mechanical motion, but if it's 80% efficent, 20% of that power is turned into heat. Lights (internal flashes) also generate heat in operation.

A simple guide line as to what camera is going to generate the most heat would be: the one that eats batteries the fastest produces the most heat. Whether this causes the camera to warm up is going to be controlled by the thermal mass of the camera and how efficently the camera transfers heat to it's surroundings.
 

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