Sidemount to get into tech.
- Thread starter Vidar
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Gas theory is gas theory, regardless of how you take your gas with you. So from that point of view it doesn't matter who you do courses with, but I think I've learnt more in the water with instructors than I have in the classroom. All those little tips and tricks that you pick up won't mean as much if you're not diving a similar configuration.
As you're not going to be taught how to dive a setup on your courses, I'd suggest starting sidemount with your mentors before hand, get comfortable and then do the gas courses.
As you're not going to be taught how to dive a setup on your courses, I'd suggest starting sidemount with your mentors before hand, get comfortable and then do the gas courses.
you will want to add some sort of modest trimix. I don't know what your instructor is able to offer but 21/20 or 25/25 or 21/35 are all viable mixes for instance. Adv nitrox and deco is not very useful by itself around here. Not many people are diving 140ft+ in 50F water with our typical vis, esp wrecks or delicate sponges. Its just not smart.
canadianoid
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For sidemount instruction I would recommend John Nunes at Edge Diving in North Van. He seems to dive sidemount exclusively and teaches technical diving as well. I think he is as good as them sidemounters come and a super nice guy to boot.
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Vidar,
hope you will find lot of excitement diving sidemount, for sure that configuration itself is very different from back mounted cylinders. Better ? Well that's a personal preference.
I did back mounted open water , trimix, wreck , full cave with schools like GUE, IANTD, PSAI and other and got myself to the point of being in process becoming instructor in these but backmounted
cylinders were giving me (since I'm not the small guy) some limitations when i.e. penetrating the wrecks and caves so when I finally got to the trying out sidemount rigs it took all my attention immediately.
It gave me the things that I was lacking in BM and opened new doors to new places and possibilities. There are slightly different gear protocols and procedures than in BM but simply saying
its pretty similar amount of gear, hoses, wires etc. and skills to be managed are the same. In my opinion gives much more freedom of movements since you can juggle the tanks any direction you want
which is most helpful in tight places because that's where the sidemount rig originates from - inability to enter with BM configuration sections.
If it comes to the instructor. Any good talented instructor that owned the BM techniques will jump into the SM and after few hours will be as good as with BM cylinders but remember its also the amount of hours he (she
) dove in that configuration (experience) that will make him good so I will look for sidemount instructor specifically for any desired by you sidemount courses and not just who own the C-card and 90% of dives does BM or rebreather but for someone who is passionate about sidemount specifically and 9 of 10 dives does in SM rig in many environments and conditions.Your tanks. I've tried to dive with Worthington steels but didn't work for me since they are heavy (in water) and doesn't provide good weight distribution characteristic helpful in SM
like steel Fabers which most of the models are "butt light" means when you swing you tanks in front of you the heaviest part stays attached by your chest and shifted weight of the tanks doesn't
try to flip you when in that position.
I'm rather big guy 6'1" 230lbs and dive LP108's Fabers, out of water they are comparable with weight and size to XP130 but in water they own buoyancy characteristic of a AL80's which is great.
Good luck with your sidemount journey !
I would never be able to swim under that truck not banging the whole surroundings with my tanks on the back and come out trough the engine area within seconds
Only SM will give you that unless you're 5 ft tall and 100 lbs weight (not offending anybody
)
No, you do not NEED to change the valves. If you have the money, and want to get a valve to replace one of them, by all means do so. As DA pointed out, it might make it a bit easier. But, if you travel and want to dive SM, the chances are you will end up with two cylinders with standard valves, so you may as well get used to diving that configuration.
Your're really asking two different questions here. a) Can you move into tech without a BM background (i.e. start SM and continue SM); and b) can you learn SM from a BM diver who doesn't dive SM?
The first question is tricky to answer. Many (I suspect most / almost all) doubles divers started BM before moving into SM, and it is hard to answer the question, 'What if I didn't have the BM background?' I am one of those. But, I suspect that the answer is 'Yes'. Many of the principles of tech diving are related to time, depth, gas, and equipment considerations independent of whether the double cylinders are manifolded or not. I was hoping that someone, who started SM and dives SM exclusively, would respond, because I would like to hear their particular experience. But, I am having troiuble thinking of a reason why a SM-only background would not work.
The second question will necessarily prompt a biased answer. Yes, you can learn many of the principles of diving dual SM cylinders from someone who has good BM experience only. But, you can learn even more - about the SM configuration - from people who have been actively diving a SM configuration, whether they are an instructor or not. SM is still an exciting DIY-ish world, and many SM divers continue to tweak their rigs to see if there is a better configuration. And, you will probably learn more from someone who has been, and still is, doing that - based on their actual experiences.
The following comments are not intended as blasphemy in regard to proper training. I started diving BM before I ever took any technical training. Yes, I used advice from a diver / instructor on assembling manifolded doubles and configuring my regs. But, I bascially read a lot, doubled up some HP120s, and took them out to the quarry, and then off the NC coast, to get a feel for them. I wasn't attemtping deep, decompression dives without training, rather I was getting used to weighting, and buoyancy and trim. I think that experienmce helped me later, when I took tech.
Likewise, I started diving SM, albeit after a lot of BM diving, before I ever took any SM training. Taking formal training later was great, because I had already encountered a lot of issues on which I wanted to get input.
You have had several offers of mentorship, and hopefully will be able to take advantage of them. If you become comfortable diving sidemounted cylinders, there is no reason that you should not use that configuration successfully in tech training.
I went from recreational BM single to recreational SM "doubles" to tech SM without any BM double experience. I have tried BM double after about 100 dives in SM and to be honest, it felt like having a fridge strapped to your back!
Personally I don't see the lack of BM doubles being a negative unless you plan on diving BM doubles in your future. I dive SM exclusively now and I love my setup. True I might take a minute or two longer to get geared up at times but you can always start gearing up a minute or two earlier. It might be beneficial to dive BM doubles once or twice just so you're familiar with their valve drill protocol in case you need to assist.
You might need to explain gas donation protocol etc with your BM buddies / instructors at times but I have yet to have someone tell me they're not comfortable diving with me simply because I'm in SM.
I did my tec course on SM and I dive with steel 100s for SM too, hope this helps you:
I highly highly recommend doing the course on SM. Gas shut down drills are SO much easier on sidemount, you don't have to reach behind your back and deal with a manifold. Tec SM isnt necessarily hard but I strongly recommend you gain familiarity with using SM before doing the Tec course. My team mate doing the course with me had just gotten SM certified meanwhile I had 50+ SM dives already. I was much more comfortable in the water, I felt he was stressed at times because he was still catching up to us. Overall, I love sidemount! The only disadvantage I can think of is remembering to switch breathing posts while you are on your back gas which does not take much getting used to.
My current set up is 2 steel 100s with DIN high pressure valves. I also have the Apeks SM regulators. First off, the Apeks regs are SUPER sweet, I recommend them if you have the budget for them (you can later buy a DIN converter for less than $50 ea). The reason why I use steel 100s is because a friend of mine basically gave them to me for free. If you like doing long dives, then I recommend them. I do scientific diving too so 3+ hours worth of air came in handy for me then. But if you are just doing some fun dives with regulator backmount, single tank divers, then it is a bit unnecessary. I was actually looking to getting some 40 or 60 cu ft tanks because they weight A LOT less.
I hope this helps, please pm me if you have any other questions!
-Tyler
I highly highly recommend doing the course on SM. Gas shut down drills are SO much easier on sidemount, you don't have to reach behind your back and deal with a manifold. Tec SM isnt necessarily hard but I strongly recommend you gain familiarity with using SM before doing the Tec course. My team mate doing the course with me had just gotten SM certified meanwhile I had 50+ SM dives already. I was much more comfortable in the water, I felt he was stressed at times because he was still catching up to us. Overall, I love sidemount! The only disadvantage I can think of is remembering to switch breathing posts while you are on your back gas which does not take much getting used to.
My current set up is 2 steel 100s with DIN high pressure valves. I also have the Apeks SM regulators. First off, the Apeks regs are SUPER sweet, I recommend them if you have the budget for them (you can later buy a DIN converter for less than $50 ea). The reason why I use steel 100s is because a friend of mine basically gave them to me for free. If you like doing long dives, then I recommend them. I do scientific diving too so 3+ hours worth of air came in handy for me then. But if you are just doing some fun dives with regulator backmount, single tank divers, then it is a bit unnecessary. I was actually looking to getting some 40 or 60 cu ft tanks because they weight A LOT less.
I hope this helps, please pm me if you have any other questions!
-Tyler
An instructor who does not dive sidemount is not familiar enough with sidemount to be teaching students in sidemount. Any instructors who teach students in a gear configuration they are not familiar with are doing their students an injustice. There are certain drills I do specifically with my sidemount students because they can be issues for sidemount divers. If you can't find an instructor locally who dives sidemount then you may want to consider traveling for your training.
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