Sidemount Question

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In my experience, I have never seen a benefit to switching every 500 psi. or even every 1/6th.

It makes more sense to just use 1/3 rd of the gas from one tank then switch to the other and use 2/3rds from it, then switch back to the first tank for a final third you will normally use on the dive. (You turn after you use 1/3rd of the gas from the second tank.) Managaging the gas like this keeps each tank within 1/3rd of the other and ensures during the pentration that each tank has a reserve at least equal to the total you have used going in. The split in reserve also will ensure that you have enough gas in either tank to exit if you lose all the gas in the other.

But don't confuse it with diving "thirds" either as one does not require the other. If you have 3600 psi in each tank you could use 1200 psi thirds or you could, for example, back off a bit and use 1000 psi "thirds" to add 400 psi to the reserve in each tank. In that case you'd use 1000 psi from the first tank, then use 2000 psi from the second tank (turning the dive after 1000 psi is used) and switch back and use the second 1000 psi from the first tank (making the switch about half way back out of the cave). That would leave 1600 psi remaining in each tank for the reserve rather than 1200 psi. You can play with the numbers until you get the desired reserve and still only make 2 gas switches.

If you think it through and compare that to switching every 500 psi (or 500 psi then 1000 psi to maintain no more than a 500 psi differential), you'll find that you make two to four times as many gas switches but gain no real advantage in safety as you still have adequate reserve gas in either tank at any point in the dive with only 2 gas switches.

Plus switching to maintain only a 500 psi differential complicates the calculation for "thirds" as thirds are most often not divisible by 500 psi and making a math mistake at depth at max penetration (the point in the dive where it really matters) can create a problem with having an adequate reserve in both tanks.

In my opinon people badly over complicate gas management with independent doubles or sidemount to no useful effect or increase in safety. Simpler is better and having to remember only two gas switches and only two switch pressures (in the example above, 2600 on the first tank and 1600 on the second tank) will go a long way to preventing a potentially fatal mistake.
 
Thats fine for heavier steels, but lighter steels and aluminum tanks, the weight makes a large difference and will affect your trim.

Go dive 1/3rds off some AL80s or LP72s and tell me 1/3rd difference in tanks isn't trying to get you cattywompus. Some of the luxfor tanks have noticable bouyancy differences with 1000-1200psi difference as well.

Diving 1/6ths adds one extra gas switch each direction, thats 2x as many swaps as diving 1/3rds out of each tank. Nowhere near 4x as many swaps.

Dive 1/6 off tank 1
Dive 1/3 off tank 2
Dive 1/3 off tank 1(you turn the dive halfway through this one)
Dive 1/3 off tank 2
Dive 1/6 off tank 1(you should end at your exit)

Add your additional gas safety net wherever.

If swapping regulators is too complicated, the diver needs to reevaluate why he's there in the first place.
 
Thats fine for heavier steels, but lighter steels and aluminum tanks, the weight makes a large difference and will affect your trim.

Go dive 1/3rds off some AL80s or LP72s and tell me 1/3rd difference in tanks isn't trying to get you cattywompus. Some of the luxfor tanks have noticable bouyancy differences with 1000-1200psi difference as well.

Diving 1/6ths adds one extra gas switch each direction, thats 2x as many swaps as diving 1/3rds out of each tank. Nowhere near 4x as many swaps.

Dive 1/6 off tank 1
Dive 1/3 off tank 2
Dive 1/3 off tank 1(you turn the dive halfway through this one)
Dive 1/3 off tank 2
Dive 1/6 off tank 1(you should end at your exit)

Add your additional gas safety net wherever.

If swapping regulators is too complicated, the diver needs to reevaluate why he's there in the first place.

Thats pretty much exactly how I do it also. Simple and IMHO, one can never get too much practice switching regs.
 
When you guys set up your side mount rigs do you have the bottles set up like a stage bottle. In referance to the way it clips on to your backplate/wing? I use a set of doubles for my back gas and have a couple of bottle set up for stages. I am just wondering if the clips are the same or if you have a different way of doing it.

Not really. Stages tend to hang down lower and more underneath you.

Sidemount bottles have a clip on the bottom (I use a suicide clip) and nothing up top.

The bottom clip hooks to a thing on your lower back, which makes the bottles ley very snug along your sides. The neck/valve area goes under a bungee and tucks up under your arm. The first couple times you do it, you'll be surprised 1. how snug the bottles feel on the sides, and 2. how much more comfortable it is.

Here is a pic I found online that shows how they get rigged:

sidemount_tankrig.jpg
 
In my experience, I have never seen a benefit to switching every 500 psi. or even every 1/6th.

It makes more sense to just use 1/3 rd of the gas from one tank then switch to the other and use 2/3rds from it, then switch back to the first tank for a final third you will normally use on the dive. (You turn after you use 1/3rd of the gas from the second tank.) Managaging the gas like this keeps each tank within 1/3rd of the other and ensures during the pentration that each tank has a reserve at least equal to the total you have used going in. The split in reserve also will ensure that you have enough gas in either tank to exit if you lose all the gas in the other.

But don't confuse it with diving "thirds" either as one does not require the other. If you have 3600 psi in each tank you could use 1200 psi thirds or you could, for example, back off a bit and use 1000 psi "thirds" to add 400 psi to the reserve in each tank. In that case you'd use 1000 psi from the first tank, then use 2000 psi from the second tank (turning the dive after 1000 psi is used) and switch back and use the second 1000 psi from the first tank (making the switch about half way back out of the cave). That would leave 1600 psi remaining in each tank for the reserve rather than 1200 psi. You can play with the numbers until you get the desired reserve and still only make 2 gas switches.

If you think it through and compare that to switching every 500 psi (or 500 psi then 1000 psi to maintain no more than a 500 psi differential), you'll find that you make two to four times as many gas switches but gain no real advantage in safety as you still have adequate reserve gas in either tank at any point in the dive with only 2 gas switches.

Plus switching to maintain only a 500 psi differential complicates the calculation for "thirds" as thirds are most often not divisible by 500 psi and making a math mistake at depth at max penetration (the point in the dive where it really matters) can create a problem with having an adequate reserve in both tanks.

In my opinon people badly over complicate gas management with independent doubles or sidemount to no useful effect or increase in safety. Simpler is better and having to remember only two gas switches and only two switch pressures (in the example above, 2600 on the first tank and 1600 on the second tank) will go a long way to preventing a potentially fatal mistake.

However, when diving in a mixed team with one SM diver and 1 BM diver and the possibility of having to donate my long hose to the BM diver, I want to have the pressures in both my tanks a little closer.

Also, I have to switch at about 500psi in my 108s because I do start to become cattywompus if I go much more than that. It's really not that difficult to figure it out either:

right tank 3600-3100
left tank 3600-2600
right tank 3100-2100 (I would be turning the dive at 2200 if I was diving 1/3s because I'm 200 from 1/3s on my left tank so I can go 200 over on my right tank...it's not rocket science)


[hijack]I will add that I rarely dive to full 1/3s anyway. Usually I limit my penetration to 1000psi because if something were to happen to my air at max penetration, 2/3s of my gas is not going to be enough to get me out of the cave alive, even with a buddy. Sudden air loss anywhere in the cave is going to result in some time isolating the leak to minimize loss (especially in backmount). SAC will also increase as a sudden massive rush of bubbles from behind your head or under your arms will take anyone by surprise and the natural physiological response to this will be tachypnea. Most people will also experience an increased SAC on the exit. So if you used a full 1/3 of your gas to penetrate and you're now relying on the 2/3rds left or your buddy and you are sharing air and relying on that 2/3rds, you are going to run out of air a couple hundred feet from the exit. There are only very specific situations in which diving 1/3s is safe.[/hijack]
 
If switching regs overly complicates a dive...rethink your skill set/dive planning. SM is not for everyone.

I keep my tanks within 300 or so psi. It's not complicated. I figure out what my turn pressure is, and take off. After one tank is about 300-400 psi lower than the other, I switch (which, after the first switch, means I only switch every 600-800 psi), nothing to remember...I'm still going to turn when both my tanks hit the turn pressure I established at the beginning (often earlier, but I like conversative!). I never have to worry if Murphy decides to take out a tank...that he takes out the "full" one (he would), since they're both pretty close to the same. My tanks are typically within a couple hundred psi of each other when I surface. I like balance :wink:

As for rigging, I have two sets with just the lower clips, and one set rigged like stages. The stage rigs are great for when I am going to have to walk with my tanks attached. I can hook the top clip into a d-ring, taking the pressure off of the bungees. They are also useful for when I might need to remove my tanks in the water. I can clip the necks together or to the d-rings, and not worry about the bungee popping off the valve while pushing them forward.
 
That's a good idea! I never get out of the water with tanks on because I am worried about the bungees. That would also be a good backup if your bungee ever broke in a cave.

Do you use a whole stage kit or do you just have a snap tied on around the neck?
 
That's a good idea! I never get out of the water with tanks on because I am worried about the bungees. That would also be a good backup if your bungee ever broke in a cave.

Do you use a whole stage kit or do you just have a snap tied on around the neck?

My current set has heavy nylon cord run up the side, ala a stage "kit"...but I have also just tied a snap on the neck in the past, with thin bungee or cave line. Either works, but I like having the "handle" that the more standard stage rigging provides.

Having a neck clip is also nice when you must gear up in deep water. You can easily hang your tanks off of a line (I don't like dangling mine upside down from a line by the bottom clip...just feels wrong.)
 
I prefer to do a 100 psi gas switch at first,this tells me that both regulators are going to breathe well at depth,then do my normal gas switching,which is dive and cave dependent.
 
The bottom clip hooks to a thing on your lower back, which makes the bottles ley very snug along your sides.
I know the back plates are popular,but as the tank pressure goes down this allows the tanks to float upward,which would be a serious problem if backing up out of a tight area. I prefer carrabiners on the tank which clip into your side,this prevents any movement of the tank upward or away from your body.


Here is a pic I found online that shows how they get rigged:

sidemount_tankrig.jpg
[/QUOTE]

I know this is a picture you found for illustration point,but I sure do hate spgs that hang down along the tank.
 
http://cavediveflorida.com/Rum_House.htm

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