Sidemount or Backmount?

[Razorista]

Of course there have been 'bubbles' in the diving industry - why should that be different from any other situation where money is involved?

Something everyone seems to overlook there regarding sidemount is that the diving industry is not driving the movement, the customers are forcing the industry to react.
While companies and agencies are struggling to get a grip on the phenomenon, it has completely rolled past them.

For some time it will still be possible to sell some overcomplicated devices to the unknowing customers and call them 'sidemount jackets'.

But harnesses much like the original Razor can be build for less then the price of a pair of neopren boots.
There are even complete ready made harnesses for less than 100$.
Wings can be build from MSR-Bags for around the same figure or custom made for not much more.

Tell me, where are the $$$ motivating the manipulators?

There is money to be made from training, but people tend to be looking for 'cheap' in that regard.
Or do you really think that instructors like DevonDiver could convince anyone to come back for follow ups or give recommendations to friends, without providing the experience they advertise?

 

[Dive-aholic]

Well, we're at the point where part of one of my sentences is being stringed together with another, completely out of context so I'll take my exit. There is no way now or ever that side-mount will be the optimum configuration for open water from an equipment standpoint for the reasons I've given, yet many refuse to even concede that. If a person has issues reaching valves or just wants to dive SM in OW, by all means, but it's still not the optimum set-up for that environment.

This octopus has lots of tenticles now, but my main point being that the craze to SM now as the next step in diving, something superior to BM in all cases, is completely flawed and driven by market forces and not logic. In a very few it's better.....A FEW. Like certain caves, I'll leave you guys to talk about that, back to the DIR forum I go.......dive safe. Later!!!

I use the right tool for the dive. I do usually dive sidemount but I also dive backmount and rebreathers. There are dives in which backmount is more appropriate however based on the points you list in post #68 it is obvious you don't have any sidemount experience and very little knowledge about it. While I agree that there is a SM craze right now and there are lots of instructors and dive shops that are pushing it for the wrong reasons, you should at least become familiar enough with sidemount to understand that many of your points are not accurate before you start arguing against sidemount. Stick to what you know.

 

[SanDiegoSidemount]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't heard anyone here say that sidemount is "superior to BM in all cases".

For me, when diving singles in open water, it's a pretty close race between sidemount and my trusty old BP/W.

 

[ianr33]

4) Last resort is to swap directly, one regulator to another, with only 2 cylinders available and no team gas-sharing.

Do you advocate 200 BAR valves for this? Those last few turns on a 300 BAR valve could kill you!!

On another note, how many BM divers would solo cave dive without a buddy bottle?

 

[DevonDiver]

Do you advocate 200 BAR valves for this?

I use 300Bar. That's a practical reality, as much of my diving is done travelling - so I need the flexibility to use either 300 or 200 bar valves.

Those last few turns on a 300 BAR valve could kill you!!

It's not as time-critical as many people assume. You have plenty of time on your working cylinder to prepare everything and get sorted; that includes removing the failed regulator (and put that o-ring aside should it be required as a spare). Then shut down the working regular, breath it down, unscrew, swap, re-screw and pressurize. The mouthpiece doesn't even leave your mouth. It's a 30 second process max. Trap the o-ring under your thumb as you remove the regulator. If things did get really desperate, then just suck a breath direct from the tank valve. You can practice plenty dry, to get the muscle memory deftly ingrained.

Remember, this is the last-ditch. It's a piece of cake to swap regs with buddy support (air-share during the process), or if you're swapping from a 3rd cylinder (retaining one breathable tank/reg throughout).

---------- Post added December 25th, 2013 at 05:11 PM ----------

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I haven't heard anyone here say that sidemount is "superior to BM in all cases"

You're right. What we've heard from a couple (of non-sidemounters) is actually "BM is superior in all cases - except, begrudgingly, in tiny restrictions where BM won't fit".

When actual sidemount divers have attempted to refute that grossly sweeping claim, they seem to have been accused of saying that sidemount is "superior to BM in all cases". It's a sad manipulation of a potentially interesting debate subject.

I haven't heard anyone here say that sidemount is "superior to BM in all cases".

At the most, I've heard individuals express a preference to one or the other, often with validated reasons, based on significant actual experience in both configurations...

 

[SillyQuestions]

Advanced Wreck program for TDI. Only in that program and SDI Solo Diver is the instructor allowed (and encouraged) to tie the student up... in other words, simulate an entanglement...

Just to correct this, the same is true in the CDG mentor ship program, entanglement, having your mask removed, air turned off is part of the test.

Known as interference over here


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[rjack321]

I didn't ask further but I assumed BM afforded longer range because it used all available real estate whereas SM wastes the space on the back. I'm just guessing though.

This is true in part, although at some point all divers start leashing stages. I have leashed stages in BM and SM and at a certain point its not pretty no matter how slick you think you are (thank god they are behind you out of view) and you're better off on a rebreather. I have found 3 or 4 stages easier to manage in BM than SM, but I think that's partly a function of muscle memory and finding stages in dry gloves just overall easier when they are rigged with up to 2 on my left and extras on a leash. Messing around with right and left stages in SM is difficult and if you top mount them requires some unique rigging which I don't like because it makes them hard for anyone to use (e.g. passing my stage to an OOA buddy).

The rest of this thread is silly pedantic arguments honestly...

---------- Post added September 22nd, 2014 at 08:43 PM ----------

I use 300Bar. That's a practical reality, as much of my diving is done travelling - so I need the flexibility to use either 300 or 200 bar valves.

300 bars are far more likely to dent and get ruined, I hate those damn things. Worst pressure management device ever. They should cease making them because who the hell is making a regulator limited to 200 bar in 2014??

 

[Kazeone]

It's not VooDoo, but it is different, yet a lot of people are treating it THE SAME, that's the problem I have with it. We'll see what GUE comes up with but I'd bet that the minimum gas calculation will not be the same as for doubles. There are a lot of reasons for this such as gas sharing complications etc. One example is since they will be using sidemount only for restrictions that require it then it must be assumed that a gas sharing event would be in a single file formation in order to get through that restriction on the way out unless the plan is to be switching tanks between team members, which I highly doubt in a confined area.....who knows, will be interesting.

It seems that the sidemount crowd simply refuse to acknowledge the usefulness of having a manifold which makes some things so much easier and is why almost all cave without restrictions has been explored using that system, there's a reason!

---------- Post added December 16th, 2013 at 10:45 AM ----------



Being desperate and uncertain of the outcome of a dive is what should be avoided by using the proper gear, training and planning! Goes without saying right? Do that and you'll never have to feather a valve. When I dive I know I have enough gas for whatever comes up. Need my gas?.....no problem, I have enough, that's how ya have relaxing fun dives, not practicing James Bond stuff

Ahahahaha

 

[LakeCountyDiver]

Ahahahaha

Grave digger strikes again. I read the title and said "oh crap not again" then realized it's from 2013. Still love reading these every few years.

BM vs SM
PADI vs Naui
BP/W vs traditional bc
Cave vs Wreck
And more.

Almost worse then religious and political debating