Sidemount NooB Zone

[Jakeb826]

I am newly discovering side mount and didn't want to ask intro, dumb or repetitive questions on existing threads (i.e. trying not to p!ss anyone off). I figured anyone interested or kind enough to look at this thread might be willing to offer up some tips.

I'll be bold enough to kick it off with:

1. Do you always dive with two tanks, even for shallow recreational dives? I'm assuming a trim issue but not sure.

2. Aside from the harness/wing setup (I see the Razor, Hollis and a little Scubapro discussed frequently) where to do I start throwing money first? Like the majority of new guys/girls I'd not be able to buy everything at once. Most efficient use of $$$ starts where?

3. I own a drysuit and two AL80's, most likely will dive the drysuit the majority of the time over a wetsuit. I've seen the AL adjustment thread. Is it a bad idea to begin training with AL?

4. I looking at Razor and Scubapro to start with. I'm 5'8" 170. Razor seems most flexible. I don't mean to start a brand war just would like to know if either is better to be avoided.

Thanks for any help and apologies for any screwups.

 

[DevonDiver]

1. Do you always dive with two tanks, even for shallow recreational dives? I'm assuming a trim issue but not sure.

There are options to dive a single tank, on conventional (non-manifolded) sidemount, you'd just need to swap a hose over (so one tank had both hoses). However, once you get experience diving sidemount, you'll see that it isn't any more difficult diving two tanks... and there are plentiful benefits of having that reserve gas. If you plan for two dives a day, you simply keep the same two tanks for both dives.

Have a look at this outline on sidemount (I wrote it to accompany my courses): Sidemount Diving Course Notes

2. Aside from the harness/wing setup (I see the Razor, Hollis and a little Scubapro discussed frequently) where to do I start throwing money first? Like the majority of new guys/girls I'd not be able to buy everything at once. Most efficient use of $$$ starts where?

There's a lot of debate over whether to get training (an expense) first, or equipment. There are tanglible benefits from attending training, at an early/initial stage, to get your rig dialled down and properly adjusted; as this has a huge impact on your comfort and enjoyment on sidemount in the water. You need to find an instructor with true expertise and significant experience, however; and be cautious of the 000's of zero-to-hero sidemount instructors who leapt into teaching this specialist niche in the last year or two.

With regards equipment only - you can't do much until you have the BCD and regs, an options to hire dedicated sidemount equipment are much more limited that with backmount. Also, hiring sidemount BCDs is quite inefficient, as the set-up/adjustment is very personal.

There are a lot of BCD options on the market. Scubapro is at the top of the price bracket. The Razor is expensive too. Have a look at what's available:

A Comprehensive List of Sidemount Systems

3. I own a drysuit and two AL80's, most likely will dive the drysuit the majority of the time over a wetsuit. I've seen the AL adjustment thread. Is it a bad idea to begin training with AL?

I'm not an expert on drysuit sidemount, due to my exile in the tropics for the last 7 years. I'll let someone else contribute on cold-water issues.

4. I looking at Razor and Scubapro to start with. I'm 5'8" 170. Razor seems most flexible. I don't mean to start a brand war just would like to know if either is better to be avoided.

I see no particular reason to favor the Scubapro. There's other equivalent models on the market that are substantially cheaper. Scubapro are expensive and offer little innovation over their peers (just look at the price difference on other 'XTek' backmount kit, compared to competitor options). The DiveRite Nomad seems to be more popular for cold-water, as does the Hollis SMS100 (with Edd Sorenson's modifications for optimization).

The Razor is minimalist and very functional. It's a dream for travelling. It really comes into it's element for wetsuit/aluminum tank diving. It's nearest competitors are the X-Deep Stealth 2.0 (my preference) and the UTD Z-Trim.

You should also research what rig your potential instructor can teach with. Sidemount instruction is much more effective if the instructor has specific expertise with the model of sidemount used. As an instructor, you can't just pick up something like the Razor and hit the ground running...

 

[tflaris]

I am newly discovering side mount and didn't want to ask intro, dumb or repetitive questions on existing threads (i.e. trying not to p!ss anyone off). I figured anyone interested or kind enough to look at this thread might be willing to offer up some tips.

I'll be bold enough to kick it off with:

1. Do you always dive with two tanks, even for shallow recreational dives? I'm assuming a trim issue but not sure.

2. Aside from the harness/wing setup (I see the Razor, Hollis and a little Scubapro discussed frequently) where to do I start throwing money first? Like the majority of new guys/girls I'd not be able to buy everything at once. Most efficient use of $$$ starts where?

3. I own a drysuit and two AL80's, most likely will dive the drysuit the majority of the time over a wetsuit. I've seen the AL adjustment thread. Is it a bad idea to begin training with AL?

4. I looking at Razor and Scubapro to start with. I'm 5'8" 170. Razor seems most flexible. I don't mean to start a brand war just would like to know if either is better to be avoided.

Thanks for any help and apologies for any screwups.

1. I uses a single tank SM in Bonaire with a 4lb weight on the waist of the harness. I got the idea from Lamar at Dive Rote.

2. Start with Harness and regs, cam bands, etc.

3. A lot of people use Al. Simply lace a 2 or 3 pound weight through the cam band to offset the buoyancy characteristics of the Al tanks.

4. I don't have any experience with those rigs

Good Luck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Mikko Ilari Laakkonen]

1. Do you always dive with two tanks, even for shallow recreational dives? I'm assuming a trim issue but not sure.

You can sidemount single tank as well but two tanks are more comfortable. You can do two normal rec dives with same tanks or you can dive with some small tanks. I live rec dives with 7l tanks that weight just next to nothing

2. Aside from the harness/wing setup (I see the Razor, Hollis and a little Scubapro discussed frequently) where to do I start throwing money first? Like the majority of new guys/girls I'd not be able to buy everything at once. Most efficient use of $$$ starts where?

Razor and scubapro are expensive, razor is very good though. Scubapro seems a little odd to me but have not tried it personally yet. I think that the goto for most would be the xdeep stealth 2.0.

3. I own a drysuit and two AL80's, most likely will dive the drysuit the majority of the time over a wetsuit. I've seen the AL adjustment thread. Is it a bad idea to begin training with AL?

No it's not especially if you don't need a lot of weight to make you neutral. In steel tanks you don't need to worry about tank bottom positive buoyancy but it's not bad to acquire these skills in the beginning and use them regularly with your drysuit. You're gonna need it on your first sidemount vacation anyway.

4. I looking at Razor and Scubapro to start with. I'm 5'8" 170. Razor seems most flexible. I don't mean to start a brand war just would like to know if either is better to be avoided.

Just look at what most of the instructors prefer (razor and xdeep) and stay away from the z system



- Mikko Laakkonen -

I love diving and teaching others to dive.

 

[MSargeant]

I am newly discovering side mount and didn't want to ask intro, dumb or repetitive questions on existing threads (i.e. trying not to p!ss anyone off). I figured anyone interested or kind enough to look at this thread might be willing to offer up some tips.

I'll be bold enough to kick it off with:

1. Do you always dive with two tanks, even for shallow recreational dives? I'm assuming a trim issue but not sure.

I do, I might look like a bit of a berk at a shallow sight but meh, I'd use twins for shallow stuff if I was diving BM still.

2. Aside from the harness/wing setup (I see the Razor, Hollis and a little Scubapro discussed frequently) where to do I start throwing money first? Like the majority of new guys/girls I'd not be able to buy everything at once. Most efficient use of $$$ starts where?

I trained first then bought the gear afterwards, took me a while due to being a poor student but I think it's better then spending a load of money to get all the gear and possibly not liking it (Picking the right instructor is key here). But if you go to an instructor who can fit a Razor/similar harness properly then it will jump start your learning!

3. I own a drysuit and two AL80's, most likely will dive the drysuit the majority of the time over a wetsuit. I've seen the AL adjustment thread. Is it a bad idea to begin training with AL?

I dive a drysuit and 2 Ali80s, I use between 8-10 KG depending on undersuit requirements, dropping more when I get a Whites Fusion Undersuit, feels great with a couple of sliding D rings to remove the need for weight on the cylinder.

4. I looking at Razor and Scubapro to start with. I'm 5'8" 170. Razor seems most flexible. I don't mean to start a brand war just would like to know if either is better to be avoided.

I'm in the Razor/Diamond/Similar camp, simplicity at its finest, incredibly few failure points (2 plates, webbing, D rings, can't get any simpler than that!). The 45lb wing may balloon when full but if you are correctly weighted you won't be putting much gas in the wing unless you are on the surface.

Hope this helps.

 

[Jakeb826]

Thank you guys for the great info. I've looked at both Devon and MSargeant's sites and am bummed that I can't get to the Phillipines, Mexico or UK for some training....single parent, kids would call CPS on me for not taking them

I appreciate you taking the time to help out. I've read a lot of the other threads and have learned a lot. I'm excited to get going with it. Drysuit refresher next week then its on!! Stoke factor is high.

 

[Dive-aholic]

I am newly discovering side mount and didn't want to ask intro, dumb or repetitive questions on existing threads (i.e. trying not to p!ss anyone off). I figured anyone interested or kind enough to look at this thread might be willing to offer up some tips.

I'll be bold enough to kick it off with:

1. Do you always dive with two tanks, even for shallow recreational dives? I'm assuming a trim issue but not sure.

I dive single tank sidemount when doing recreational dives. No trim weight necessary. An AL80 is not very heavy and doesn't really require one. Here are some photos of me in Aruba - Around the World « Rob Neto

2. Aside from the harness/wing setup (I see the Razor, Hollis and a little Scubapro discussed frequently) where to do I start throwing money first? Like the majority of new guys/girls I'd not be able to buy everything at once. Most efficient use of $$$ starts where?

Save it up. You can't really go into sidemount piecemeal. You will need to get the harness and the regs. Not much else to buy.

3. I own a drysuit and two AL80's, most likely will dive the drysuit the majority of the time over a wetsuit. I've seen the AL adjustment thread. Is it a bad idea to begin training with AL?

Not at all. I dive AL80s a few times a year in Mexico. You can use weights on the cylinders or on your body. I prefer on my body but only because I've had weights on the cylinders get caught up on things in restrictions.

4. I looking at Razor and Scubapro to start with. I'm 5'8" 170. Razor seems most flexible. I don't mean to start a brand war just would like to know if either is better to be avoided.

The Razor is a great rig for AL80s. However, it will not work well with steel cylinders. You just can't get enough lift to counteract them without losing your streamlining. The Scubapro rig looks a little big for someone who is 5'8" but I have not used one. Really it depends on what you will be using the rig for. If it's all open water diving then your options are much larger than if you are interested in negotiating restrictions.

 

[Jakeb826]

Thanks Rob and Mikko and everybody. I snorkeled the Antilla in Aruba, gf at the time wasn't certified to dive. Dove a bit in Roatan too but other than that I've only had crap visibility.

I've been looking more at all of the major players and reading what you guys have said. I'm kind of leaning now towards the Nomad to have the colder water capabilities and option of dual bladder. Cost seems decent, too. DGX seems to have a decent deal on a Dive Rite side mount reg package that I can can theoretically swing, too, so the cost benefit factor is there. The reviews I have found seem decent so far. I know there are probably better regs out there but am I doing BAD starting with those?

I realize that I need to not suffer from paralysis by analysis and start getting wet. So unless there is a huge no I'm missing I'm pretty sure that is where I'm headed. I need to keep some gas in the tank for training and travel costs, seems I'm looking at least at some mid range trips to find instructors with the experience that you are speaking of. I can start locally in the pool working on trim and basic configuration work, as well, without risking safety while I fiddle with stuff.

 

[DevonDiver]

Dual bladder and high performance regulators make sense if you have serious ambition towards technical diving. If you don't, then they aren't a necessity.

With regards regulators; DiveRite and HOG are worth looking at.

My personal preference is Scubapro Mk25/S600, but; (1) I had a few sets anyway and (2) My diving demands high performance regs.

 

[Colliam7]

1. Do you always dive with two tanks, even for shallow recreational dives? I'm assuming a trim issue but not sure.

Although I usually dive SM with two cylinders, I also dive SM with a single AL80. Why not? It is actually easy. I CANNOT say that it is better (or worse) than a BM single AL80. I just happen to prefer SM when possible. With a single AL80, I really don't see a trim issue. Once you learn how to use it, you don't notice it.

2. Aside from the harness/wing setup (I see the Razor, Hollis and a little Scubapro discussed frequently) where to do I start throwing money first? Like the majority of new guys/girls I'd not be able to buy everything at once. Most efficient use of $$$ starts where?

Why not just talk to someone locally who dives it?? DO NOT start throwing money at a SM rig, find some people in your area who dive SM and borrow their gear. If you can't find anyone in the CB / Wilmington area, hell, come up to Raleigh for a couple of days. We can show you cold water rigs, warm water rigs, etc. I am not trying to sell you on training with me, or anyone else. Rather, there are plenty of people in NC diving SM and most of us are more than happy to help you. I admit, I have certain preferences for regulators - type (turret), not brand = and BCDs. But, I can also show you several set-ups involving different brands, AND types, and why some may be better than others (hose routing is an issue, as one example).

3. I own a drysuit and two AL80's, most likely will dive the drysuit the majority of the time over a wetsuit. I've seen the AL adjustment thread. Is it a bad idea to begin training with AL?

NOT AT ALL. I frequently dive SM AL80s with my drysuit, and a DR Nomad. Great rig.

4. I looking at Razor and Scubapro to start with. I'm 5'8" 170. Razor seems most flexible. I don't mean to start a brand war just would like to know if either is better to be avoided.

Neither is to 'be avopided'. The Razor is a wonderful rig. DevonDiver's website has a great summary of available rigs. There is NOT ONE AND ONLY ONE way to go here. Why not try several approaches before you buy. Frankly, a simple Transpac, with some rather trivial modifications will work just fine to get you started. DON'T go out and blow a lot of money on a rig. Dive with some SM divers first, take a course first, etc. You won't regret it.

I've looked at both Devon and MSargeant's sites and am bummed that I can't get to the Phillipines, Mexico or UK for some training....single parent, kids would call CPS on me for not taking them

But, with respect to Andy, etc. - and I am happy to state that you would get some GREAT training if you go dive with him - you DON'T HAVE TO go to the Phillipines or Mexico to get started. If you want to learn to dive with a sidemount configuration, there are SM Instructors (and divers) close by - in NC. There are SM instructors all along the East coast. There are SM instructors in FL. Travel should not be an issue.