Sidemount intro to cave instruction

[IndigoBlue]

I believe it makes economic sense to choose from among (1) backmounted twin tanks, (2) sidemounted tanks, (3) SCRs, or (4) CCRs as early as possible in your diving career.

For the photographers and videographers, the SCRs and CCRs make the most sense, and therefore starting them as soon as possible, right after Advanced Nitrox (a single-tank course) would seem to be the smartest time to start.

For cave divers or shipwreck penetration divers, sidemounting seems to make the most sense, and therefore starting early on, right after Advanced Nitrox also would seem to be the smartest time to start.

With the new sidemounting technology available, I am not even sure that backmounting makes sense any more. I can even envision a tri-mounting system, consisting of a back-mounted single, and two side mounts in addition, on a special not-yet-designed B/C-harness. That would give you up to 390 cu ft of bottom mix!

To answer the question, I would love to learn sidemounting, and if I were not already trained in back-mounted doubles, I could not see the sense in making backmounting a prerequisite for sidemounting.

As was mentioned earlier, if you want insurance coverage for teaching, you would need to persuade one of the progressive agencies to adopt your proposal as a standard. That may be the hardest part. Its called bureaucracy.

 

[akioMtFuji]

I am looking for an UW cave in Japan.
I almost agree on a reason to give it Curt.

For 16 years front, a famous diver died in Springs of Mt Fuji.
It was the accident which of course could happen because it was the diving without a reel.
But, a shocking accident occurred for the Japanese diver.
It is taken to the Japanese diver in since the accident, and it is recognized that cave dives only with the dangerous act.

I introduced the cave diving of Florida to Japanese diver in about 10 years ago.
Japanese diver who began cave diving in this several years increased.
But, that cave diving is the method limited to the spring of Florida.

1.
A double tank doesn't almost have it in Japan.
2.
It is far to the entrance.
3.
A Japanese cave is small.
4.
Balance is good as sidemount is a balancing toy.
5.
The visual observation of the vessel material can be done.
6.
Even BC being used can be improved.

There is no problem if it is practiced in the OW dive though there is a person who points out air management.
Cave is not in all Spring in Florida.
If a Japanese diver learns a sidemount, any amount can be discovered cave in Japan.

 

[GDI]

{off topic}Why? I have never really understood this...is it a regional thing? The cave dives here in the UK are rarely deep or long enough (<100 ft) to make nitrox and deco that common. I guess the same situation largely applies in the Yucatan.

I don't look at this as a regional thing, I guess it could be, remember deco is not just about how deep, it can be about how long one dives. The cave environment can lead a diver into deco quite easy. So I believe that having a understanding of it before taking such a class will better prep the diver.

Sidemounts and the gas management issue I don't think is a big factor vs backmount. Again I think why not teach sidemount from the start, in fact maybe do both over the course of the training, give the diver the tools needed for the various dives they may come accross

 

[akioMtFuji]

Before a cave class,
A diver should get accustomed to double tank.
A diver should get accustomed to side mount as well.

What makes cave diving and equipment practice simultaneous makes a mistake. :monkeydan

 

[Scuba_Steve]

Hmmm, a pretty sweeping statement considering it's clearly just an opinion, Akio!

I agree that Cave isn't the place to be also dinking around with gear in general, I would say you would be more accurate if you first decided which one you may want to do, or would be taught, practice that until comfortable, and then proceed with the class with the set-up. Stating that one should be comfortable with Sidemount before a cave class is a bit of a stretch since as it seems, most are originally learning backmount, which in general is how most also learn how to dive anyway. Individual circumstances will vary of course.

Example: My (very) recent Cave course. One fellow (Cavern/Intro class), never dove doubles before this course, didn't have deco theory as I recall.....she was a tough battle for him, and I believe he went to Intro only because of it. As you say, too much fooling with new gear to be doing it also in a overhead environment. The task was too much for him at the time. In my Cave course, Sidemount was spoken about, but not taught. I would assume this is more the norm currently. You gents at least have got me thinking "Why not Sidemount?"

Never thought of it before really. Maybe I'll try it someday!

 

[FreeFloat]

I think there are cavers who want to cave under water and divers who want to dive in caves and the two may be very different.

Ain't it the truth! I'm a dry caver myself and have already seen a vast difference between the attitudes of "divers who cave" and "cavers who dive"..........mind you my experience with cave divers per se is still pretty limited.

 

[Mako Mark]

Ain't it the truth! I'm a dry caver myself and have already seen a vast difference between the attitudes of "divers who cave" and "cavers who dive"..........mind you my experience with cave divers per se is still pretty limited.

That is a VERY interesting observation freefloat, and makes me wonder were I fit in there. I did a LOT of dry caving (my thesis was on caves) before I became a cave diver, but I consider my approach as a cave diver, not as a caver who dives.

Regarding sidemount, I believe it is a technique that is an intergral part of cave diving, just like has been mentioned about nitrox deco and even extended range and trimix in certain areas.

It reall depends on the caves and the preference of the diver. I am sure we will see more if it in the future.

I would have liked to have been taught sidemount on my cave course to give me the option when I need it. Right now even though I want to sidemount, I dont feel confident enough to just take a poodle jacket and strap on a couple of stages and give sidemount a whack. I feel I need some guided instruction, but I am sure that it wouldnt be much.

I do have a question for those who do sidemount though. I dive mostly dry in the caves and have heard wildly differing opinions as to whether a drysuit is sufficient bouyancy (that you only need a drysuit and a backplate harness, and that wings are not nessicary), to the complete opposite of "are you crazy, a drysuit is not enough"

I love the look of Curt Bowens harness, but the price means I would really like to try one for a few dives before I plop that much moola for one.

Curt, if you are still on this thread, next time you are here, I can get you into that cave you want to see, but it will cost you an armadillo and half a days instruction...

 

[MikeFerrara]

Mark,

Most of the sidemount divers I know use a wing and most of the time are also in a dry suite.

I've also seen the rigs of people like Duncan Price who rely on the dry suit for buoyancy control.

I know that if I split my double apart and sidemounted them I'd be pretty heavy with full tanks for using a dry suit for buoyancy control. On the other hand if you are in a small cave where you're spending most of the time crawling, what difference would it make?

What little sidemounting I've done has been using a wing.

 

[Mako Mark]

Mark,

Most of the sidemount divers I know use a wing and most of the time are also in a dry suite.

(snip)

What little sidemounting I've done has been using a wing.

That is pretty much my thinking Mike, but how do you attach a wing to a back plate without a tank or doubles to hold it down?? Do you need a second plate or what??

 

[MikeFerrara]

That is pretty much my thinking Mike, but how do you attach a wing to a back plate without a tank or doubles to hold it down?? Do you need a second plate or what??

I've seen all kinds of sidemount rigs but none used a backplate. I've seen guys modify jacket bcs but most use a harness of some sort. I have one that was custom made. To get an idea, look at Curt's Armadillo or even the diverite setup. That's not to say that these two are the same but you'll see the wing tie downs and the rubber bands that wrap around the back looping over the tank valves to support the top of the tank...also holding down the wing.

Duncan Price has posted a bunch of stuff showing his rig also.