Sidemount canister light

[DaleHawerchuck]

Hi Bobby,

First, thank you for your technical explication, it is very interesting. I'm studying in the engineering field and rest assured, I know sometimes marketing dept tend to expose boosted technical specs. The problem is, a lot of companies (maybe not yours) are doing the exact same thing..

I don't pretend to be an expert, as light output is not a field I know a lot. But I know the following informations, maybe you could comment.

The 50W rating is actually an "HID equivalent" measure (marketing measure). The real power output of the lamp is more close to 10W if I remember well. Well, even at 10W it doesn't make sense to be a 5000 lumens lamp as you're saying top efficiency LED are actually at 135 lumens/W and I agree with you if this number is right.

For the 24W questionning, is it possible that because the light angle is wider on the 24W than the 50W, the light output is better on the 50W as it is more "concentrated"? As I said I have no idea how they do measure lumens output and it seems to be pretty randomized among lamps compagnies.

Knowing that, I'm aware I will probably not get a 5000 lumens output.. As I doubt any lumens rating on every lamp on the market. But I'm very curious to see how this lamp will perform compared to similar price range lamps. At this price, I can get a 1000 lumens lamp with about 4 or 5 hours burntime. So the worst that can happen is that the lamp will perform as other lamps in this price range do as well. I have seen no reviews whatsoever of this lamp, so I will try it myself. I'll be diving with people using DiveRite and LM lamps, and they will be my base of comparison.

I've heard good things about your products, but I prefer to buy a lamp from my LDS if I get any trouble with it. I'll be taking my cave course in Florida this winter and I will try to stop by and see your products.

 

[victorzamora]

Although that makes sense, it's funny that you're saying that. I've never heard of anybody NOT buying a UWLD light because of Bobby's service. That's like half the reason most people buy those lights....better service than you could even hope for out of most companies. Not that his lights need service often, but if they do....it's worth paying for his lights.

Also, there's something to be said for honesty. Most manufacturers make claims of well beyond their specs. Bobby typically undershoots. Honesty and integrity are what take my money from me. That, and truly seeing the cave for the first time after my retinas recovered from his big light on "High."

 

[DaleHawerchuck]

You are right. Honesty and integrity from light manufacturers should be a standard in the industry.

I'm not saying UWLD don't offer great service, as I didn't even know these products a few weeks ago. I'm just saying that here in Canada, it seems beeing on this side of the frontier always complicate everything when problems occurs.. I have personnally dealed with this the last time I bought equipment from an online store.

Beside avoiding this kind of situation, I always try to support my LDS when they offer products that suits my needs. Thats why I got my lamp there.

 

[victorzamora]

You are right. Honesty and integrity from light manufacturers should be a standard in the industry.

I'm not saying UWLD don't offer great service, as I didn't even know these products a few weeks ago. I'm just saying that here in Canada, it seems beeing on this side of the frontier always complicate everything when problems occurs.. I have personnally dealed with this the last time I bought equipment from an online store.

Beside avoiding this kind of situation, I always try to support my LDS when they offer products that suits my needs. Thats why I got my lamp there.

And you were right to support your LDS. I'm a big supporter in buying from my LDS when I can. I try to buy locally as much as possible and resort to online as little as possible. That's not the part I was commenting on.

My comment was simply UTD vs UWLD. Even if Bobby's lights were inferior in every way, he'd be the reason I'd pick up his lights over UTD. If he had the same mediocre service most places do, his product is so much better that they would be reason enough to convince me. As for the border, I lived in El Salvador for years and I understand the pain. However, your LDS isn't going to give you a new UTD light if yours breaks. They're going to go through the same hassle with UTD you would with UWLD if something goes wrong.

 

[Bobby]

Dale,
Thanks for the good words and I fully understand that you want to go with what your LDS carries. We have been working on getting dealers in Canada however we are cautious to not grow too fast either so it has been a slow process.

It seems that you have a good handle on what you are purchasing. I have no idea regarding their quality or reliability as we have never had one of their lights in our shop. I simply wanted to point out that their marketing claims don't add up and you seem to be good on that end of it.

One other thing that I noticed on their site which leads into the question you asked regarding beam angle and Lumen output. The two have no relationship to each other. Lumen is a measurement of light output at the light source. It does not take into account the focus of the light or the amount of light that comes out of the luminaire (luminaire is the complete package of a light). Lumen output is a good starting point for comparing apples to apples as light component manufacturers have a standard method for testing Lumen output.

Lux is the amount of light that reaches a specific point at a specific angle from a lumiare. At first glance you would likely say that giving lux measurements would be the best way to compare dive lights and you would correct if there wasn't a major issue with doing this. The issue is that Lux measurements will vary widely if the distance is changed by just a few millimeters or the angle is changes by even one degree or the Lux meters are not calibrated the same. This makes it very difficult to use Lux measurements between different manufacturers.

We have built a Lux box that gives us repeatable numbers so we can test our products and test other manufacturers products as well. The reason that we don't use our Lux numbers for marketing is that they wouldn't give people something to use for a level comparison. Lux also doesn't directly correlate to Lumen either. So for now the best way of comparing at least the basic output of a light is by using its Lumen output. Unfortunately other manufacturers put out crazy numbers and muddy the water making it difficult for the end user to know what is what.

That is why we took the time to make our light comparison video to give people an opportunity to have something to make a reasonable comparison. The video was a lot more difficult to produce then we even thought it would be and it took us many attempts before we had something that was fair and useful. Our LD-15 puts out over 1500 Lumen of light with very efficient optics under water. The optics were designed for under water use so they are better under water than in air. The video shows that our LD-15 does a reasonable job of comparing with a 35w HID however there is no way that one could say it would compare with a 50w HID. From their website I am guessing that actual Lumen output on their lights is at least 30% less than our LD-15. The optics would not make up for that large of gap in actual light output.

My apologies for the long winded response. I never seem to be able to put lighting information into short sentences.

---------- Post added December 13th, 2013 at 10:31 AM ----------

Although that makes sense, it's funny that you're saying that. I've never heard of anybody NOT buying a UWLD light because of Bobby's service. That's like half the reason most people buy those lights....better service than you could even hope for out of most companies. Not that his lights need service often, but if they do....it's worth paying for his lights.

Also, there's something to be said for honesty. Most manufacturers make claims of well beyond their specs. Bobby typically undershoots. Honesty and integrity are what take my money from me. That, and truly seeing the cave for the first time after my retinas recovered from his big light on "High."

Wow!!! thanks for the good words, they are highly appreciated.

 

[DaleHawerchuck]

Thanks for the explanation Bobby, very interesting stuff to know. With all these different methods to measure, I think the best way to show people lamp capabilities is the one you're using, that is showing the lamps side by side on a picture or video.

Cheers

 

[Dive-aholic]

Here's an in depth discussion on lumen vs lux - Lumen vs Lux « Rob Neto

 

[Bobby]

Here's an in depth discussion on lumen vs lux - Lumen vs Lux « Rob Neto

Rob,
That is not an in depth conversation. However it does make my point regarding Lux measurements. Our LD-26 on our Lux box gives 75,000 Lux @ 2600 Lumen. Our LD-35 has 111,000 Lux @ 3500 Lumen. Obviously that is not helpful for the end user in deciding what light is for them even though our numbers are higher. In the end they don't help clarify. Now if you would like to send a couple of your lights over to be measured on our Lux box we will publish the numbers for ours & your products as they are.

Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk

 

[Dive-aholic]

Bobby, it may not be in depth as far as the overly technical aspects of it but for the general lay person it has a lot more information regarding lumen vs lux. My intent was to build on your post about lux. I agree that more manufacturers should be using lux rather than lumen since it is a more accurate reflection of the light. Unfortunately, it just doesn't happen. Probably because they're afraid of the results. Next time I'm in the area I'll get in touch and stop by with my lights. I'd like to see the numbers you come up with.

 

[Bobby]

Rob,
The next time I come over to Marianna I will bring the Lux box & we can meet up so you can compare numbers and see how the box works. For primary lights, Lux would be a better way of knowing how much light output there is. The issue is having repeatable numbers between manufacturers. That would be rather difficult and considering the "juiced up" numbers that are already on the market I don't know how helpful using Lux would be. I have seen the Tilly's however I have never put them on our Lux box to it would be interesting to compare them with ours and others that we have already gotten numbers for.

Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk 4