Show some respect... bug hunters at Casino Point

[merxlin]

I think what fascinates me most about this thread is that the entire argument is based upon the assumption that the lobster in question was in fact taken from within the park boundaries. However as of yet nobody has been able to post any evidence to support that.

No, it's moved well beyond that. The argument is about whether something is legal makes it right, and if as divers we should have a "diver's agreement" to have a minimal impact on certain dive sites so that all divers can enjoys them in a somewhat natural state.

But I'll play along: Lets say the dive park is legally a no-take zone, and you catch your legal limit of legal size lobster outside the park, but exit at the dive park steps. Does Fish & Game care where you allegedly took them? Do they have to prove you took them in the park?

 

[Captain12Pk]

Pretty sure I said "What fascinates ME"... but ok. As for an agreement; you can agree to whatever you like. But that doesn't bind others to it.
As I understand it, the park is now a preserve. How F&G handles travels through a protected area I don't know. But I suspect the burden of proof would be placed upon the one in posession of the game. But that's just my cynical guess.

 

[D_B]

There are posts in this thread that state where lobsters were taken, so it's not based entirely on assumption

 

[drbill]

I think what fascinates me most about this thread is that the entire argument is based upon the assumption that the lobster in question was in fact taken from within the park boundaries. However as of yet nobody has been able to post any evidence to support that.

Kevin, in at least two cases divers acknowledged to other divers they took the bugs from the park. Several of us locals are well aware of the activity that goes on in the park both prior to and during lobster season. I have seen divers take bugs from inside the park, but usually by tying small boats off at the line and diving in from there. Instructors here know of incidents.

And the key to me is the number of tail-less lobster carcasses seen well within the park boundaries on my night dives. Most lobster predators I'm aware of do not neatly separate the tails from the carapace and leave the carapace lying on the bottom. Humans are almost certainly the cause of that evidence... and I've seen them on nearly every night dive I do as well as during the day.

 

[Blackwood]

Just an observation:

I'm pretty sure that not a single person in this thread has openly admitted to taking game from the park. There are plenty of people in here saying they think it's okay to do so - but they won't admit to doing it themselves.

Hmmm - what does that mean?

That we (I) don't enjoy hunting but neither do we (I) begrudge others who do so within the boundaries of the law, perhaps.


Clearly "legal" and "morally right" are mutually independent concepts. However, I've yet to see anyone justify the claim that hunting in the park is morally wrong, any more than sticking 6000 lumens into the face of a nocturnal animal is, perhaps.

 

[merxlin]

That we (I) don't enjoy hunting but neither do we (I) begrudge others who do so within the boundaries of the law, perhaps.


Clearly "legal" and "morally right" are mutually independent concepts. However, I've yet to see anyone justify the claim that hunting in the park is morally wrong, any more than sticking 6000 lumens into the face of a nocturnal animal is, perhaps.

The moral side of the question is that unlike many other dive spots, the Dive Park is used by divers on a very regular basis, perhaps more so than any other site in So Cal. It is also used by students and new divers because of the relatively benign conditions usually found there: protected overhead, easy entry/exit, minimal navigation required. In other words, its a great place for new divers to get their feet wet, and also cool enough that many veteran divers will go there for pleasure dives. So the moral dilemma is (in my mind at least): Do the wants of a few bug hunters overshadow keeping the park as pristine as possible for the general diving population.

The difference to me with your analogy above is that the nocturnal animal will still be alive after you stick 6000 lumens in their face (I want that dive light by the way ). Once a bug is caught - its gone forever.

 

[Captain12Pk]

The dive community has long treated the Casino Point Dive Park as a de facto marine reserve so the critters in it would be there for all to see and enjoy.

However, there are those who take advantage of this and take lobster from it. Weeks before season started, we were seeing discarded carapaces with no tails suggesting that divers had been taking them. The night after season opened, someone took at least one bug and left the antennae and many legs discarded within the wall at the dive park steps.

Eventually I hope those who disrespect the Fish & Game laws are caught and punished. Poachers leave a bad taste in my regulator. Those who disrespect the desire of most of the dive community to protect Casino Point for others to enjoy deserve my ire as well.

In addition to removing bugs from that ecosystem, you are making them leery of us no take divers as well. I noticed a few weeks before season began that the lobster I tried to film at night became very skittish when my video lights caught them. Prior to that they were much less so.

Show some respect! I realize the vast majority of divers do not do such things, so this is directed at the few who do. Come December hopefully we can bring legal action against these few... or vigilante justice. Using a speargun is illegal in City waters... but apparently not topside from my read of the ordinance!

Sorry. I guess I misunderstood.

 

[Captain12Pk]

Kevin, in at least two cases divers acknowledged to other divers they took the bugs from the park. Several of us locals are well aware of the activity that goes on in the park both prior to and during lobster season. I have seen divers take bugs from inside the park, but usually by tying small boats off at the line and diving in from there. Instructors here know of incidents.

And the key to me is the number of tail-less lobster carcasses seen well within the park boundaries on my night dives. Most lobster predators I'm aware of do not neatly separate the tails from the carapace and leave the carapace lying on the bottom. Humans are almost certainly the cause of that evidence... and I've seen them on nearly every night dive I do as well as during the day.

Not arguing that divers have taken the lobster. My point was, and still is, finding carpaces in or around the dive park is not proof that the lobster was taken from the dive park.

 

[Tessunderwater]

I wish they would turn the dive park into a reserve, sooner rather than later

I have family in San Diego and would love to dive this location the next time I'm out there. I think it's terrible some people want to ruin a location for others just for their own gain. On the Fl gulf coast, where I do most of my dives, the beaches are reserved as state parks so you can't take marine life from the location. I wonder if the state of California, along with a petition from the local diving community, could make Catalina a regulated park to combat this behavior.

 

[Blackwood]

The difference to me with your analogy above is that the nocturnal animal will still be alive after you stick 6000 lumens in their face (I want that dive light by the way ). Once a bug is caught - its gone forever.

Sure, but lights certainly change behavior, or at the very least make them easier prey temporarily. In either case, we aren't simply observing, our mere presence affects things.

(yah, me too )