Show some respect... bug hunters at Casino Point

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Since you posted twice, I think you need to dive with more experienced buddies who don't "bounce" too much.

Dwayne

Posted what twice? If you mean posting a similar point twice, the second was directly a response to another member that perhaps didn't get my intent the first time. Nothing more.

I'll dive with anyone. If we all only dive with more experienced divers, that would leave new divers with no mentorship. The subject of bouncing around was discussed and the hunting stopped for that day. Next time out, it will be clear that it's not a hunting trip. Problem solved for me and hopefully, they'll think about it WHILE they hunt next time.
 
The single argument being presented by the "its OK to hunt in the park" side (although they'd never do it....) is this: Nobody has told them its against the law.

That's funny to me.

Its a lot like not walking across the school mascot on the sidewalk at your alma mater. You just don't do it.

Oh sure, nobody has designated that patch of ground as off limits to walking. Nobody has made it illegal to walk on the mascot. But thousands of students every year walk around it.

Why?

Because that piece of ground holds some significance the ground around it doesn't hold. Its respectful (the request of the OP, BTW) not to walk on it. Its tradition. Its honorable. And if some ignorant student stumbles over the mascot, or somebody who has determined its not against the law walks on it (the "I'm going to walk on it because there is no 'law'" types) - nearly any student in the vicinity will call out this mascot-walker out. There will be shouting. There will be cussing, and from the more vociferous there will be threats. There will be very many come against the one.

Some will explain it with patience and tolerance. Others will shame the mascot-walker into never forgetting that spot again. Some will feign violence. Some will side with the mascot walker. "He broke no laws" they will say - adding, "of course, I'd never walk on the mascot, but its within his rights to walk on it if he chooses..." These contrarians remain in the minority, clinging to their minority view, thanking goodness its not against the law - because here's the deal: They esteem order over tradition - determined to fight to the bitter end for equality at any cost.

The original poster asked for respect.

But the mascot stompers and those standing with the mascot stompers can't offer respect. They have chosen a flat earth view - where equality reigns and rule of order must be rigidly adhered to over honor, tradition, respect and a host of other timeless virtues. The will of the many are rendered meaningless to the those who support the mascot-treaders if they offer favor or preference outside of or apart from written law.

And that's fine. Its just funny.

My point hasn't changed: Some places are more special than others. Be it a few square yards of school mascot hewn in the sidewalk or a few hundred yards of manicured shore line. You don't need a law to know slogging across a school mascot is just bad form, and supporting someone's right to slog (although you'd never slog) is precisely the same as if you slogged yourself when you abandon tradition, honor and class - and simply cling to "the law" - waiting for someone to influence your decisions - in this case, "the law".

The dive park is a special place. There is no reason to hunt there. I just think its funny that the hunter's pep squad (made up of non-park hunters) are looking over their shoulder for someone else to say it's OK or not OK to hunt there.

So what now?

What happens if by some miracle the park becomes reserve? Well of course at that moment the hunter's pep squad's allegiance instantly changes. "Its now against the law - I can no longer support hunting here in this place...."

It must be rough on the nuggets, sitting on that fence all day, waiting to see which way the wind blows before you choose and defend a side or issue - only pointing to "the law."

Supporting the law is simple. Its without risk. You're never wrong, you're never forced to choose a side that is contrary to "the law". Its not against the law to hunt there (although you'd never hunt there) so let the lobster evisceration continue unabated.

When its not against the law to hunt, you support the hunter's right to take game from a dive park (although you'd never do it...) When it becomes against the law, you will now be against taking game from the park (although you would never do it...)

One day you're going to need to come off the fence, put down the wet finger, not care which direction the wind is blowing and choose a side on an issue - not simply side with whatever keeps you out trouble in the eyes of the law - qualifying your statements with "I'd never hunt there" is tipping your hand. You couldn't care less about the dive park. So long as you're on the side of the law (whatever side it falls on) you sleep fine.

Its the thing I find most amusing of all with the crowd supporting hunters in the park - there is no conviction in your position. Your only care is in supporting whatever "the law" says.


-K
 
Wow, when you put it like that ... it really makes you question why anyone would ever support hunter's right to take game from a dive park (although they'd never do it...)
 
Did anyone stop to think that these broken pieces of lobsters that are showing up at Casino Point may not be from some poaching hunter gatherer type, but possibly from a seal or otter that has decided that he has found the motherload.....
 
Did anyone stop to think that these broken pieces of lobsters that are showing up at Casino Point may not be from some poaching hunter gatherer type, but possibly from a seal or otter that has decided that he has found the motherload.....
good question
I think Dr Bill would be in a position to make a determination ether way and he's said that he believes people are responsible
 
Did anyone stop to think that these broken pieces of lobsters that are showing up at Casino Point may not be from some poaching hunter gatherer type, but possibly from a seal or otter that has decided that he has found the motherload.....

Of course natural predation was a consideration. However, I've never seen pinnipeds remove just the tail as neatly as on these carapaces... and they generally take the entire bug rather than just cleanly removing the tail and leaving other edible parts (albeit also crunchy) behind. Keep in mind we don't have otters here. Pinnipeds don't walk up the dive park stairs and remove the legs and antennae of bugs prior to eating them as I've observed and filmed the parts.

Also, as I mentioned, divers have been observed by several people with coolers of bugs that were by their own admission taken from the park. These divers were not locals, they were staying in hotels and boarding the boats back to the mainland.

As for Ken's most recent post, I had thought this would be obvious to most people but appreciate his creation of that analogy. I think we put our mascot out on the grass so people wouldn't have to step over it on a sidewalk (go Spartans!). In college, the Harvard "John" was an upright statue (although people did climb on it).

I think back to the 60s and a slightly different twist on all this... civil disobedience. It was legal for transit systems, public facilities and establishments to bar blacks then. Was it right? Of course not. In this case people had to violate the laws to make a point and get these practices declared illegal. The reason I raise this point is that not everything that is legal is "right" in terms of ethics or morality. IMHO those who live strictly by the law may be missing an important element in their thinking... the ethical element.
 
I repeat myself: it was legal for the many questionable mortgage originators and some of the Wall Street types to nearly ruin not only the US economy but the world's? They created mortgages they knew wouldn't fly long-term but that created immediate income for those originating them, then passed them on so they wouldn't have any liability when they failed. Those receiving these questionable mortgages then repackaged them into complicated derivatives that were legal (albeit very questionable) and sold them to others.

This was all legal... and it nearly destroyed us (although in many minds the verdict on this is still out). Time we inject a bit more ethical decision making into the picture.
 
I repeat myself: it was legal for the many questionable mortgage originators and some of the Wall Street types to nearly ruin not only the US economy but the world's? They created mortgages they knew wouldn't fly long-term but that created immediate income for those originating them, then passed them on so they wouldn't have any liability when they failed. Those receiving these questionable mortgages then repackaged them into complicated derivatives that were legal (albeit very questionable) and sold them to others.

This was all legal... and it nearly destroyed us (although in many minds the verdict on this is still out). Time we inject a bit more ethical decision making into the picture.

As a military member it's often the view that the soldier is a reflection of his/her leadership. Unfortunately, I believe this to be true in terms of societies, as well. Until our politician (aka leaders) make decisions based on morals and ethics, rather than money and favors, the overall society will continue to fail in this regard.
 
most of the lobster divers I see about should be called "reef wreckers" as I have seen that repeatedly..also on wrecks...but I made a joking comment that one of these "reef wreckers" airline should be cut from behind, and that was a mistake, cause the whole dive shop (employees included) are lobster hunters, and then they told the reef wrecker that I was referring to what I said, and then he acted like a little bitch, and blew up my phone with tons of texts...what to do..maybe revoke their dive card?.
 

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