Should You Pick Up That Seashell?

[lowviz]

No worries, Lowviz. I appreciate the apology. ...//...

It was honestly given and your response makes you the greater person.

Just be ready for people like me. I was all ready to tell you that I make it a point to never eat anything that is still living, like you do.

Fun sparring with you. Swords uncrossed. Peace.

 

[TMHeimer]

It was honestly given and your response makes you the greater person.

Just be ready for people like me. I was all ready to tell you that I make it a point to never eat anything that is still living, like you do.

Fun sparring with you. Swords uncrossed. Peace.

lowviz & NYC: You guys are good in my book for sure.
NetDoc: You're one of "those". Love your teaching approach but I'll never book a charter with you!
Flamingo tongues? Really?

 

[The Chairman]

NetDoc: You're one of "those". Love your teaching approach but I'll never book a charter with you!

I would never allow you to book a charter with me! But don't worry, that's only because I don't sell charters. I leave the boat outfitting, maintenance and driving to professionals.

Look, it's a really big ocean out there. There's room for all of us down there. I love to spear fish, but there are many who don't. A few even think it's immoral. I doubt I could change their minds nor could they affect mine. Rather than mentally dividing the diving community into competing tribes where I can say "you're one of those", I would rather celebrate our diversity and appeal to our commonality. You may not dive my way, but I can still respect your right to dive as you please within the law. FWIW, most the shells I see are illegal to collect. You're not allowed to take anything from a cave in Florida.

 

[drbill]

I would never collect shells with living critters in them unless it were for scientific purposes (and very little of my scientific endeavors involve live collection of anything). As for "discarded" shells, I have taken a few (very few) in my 50+ years of diving but check those closely for critters living within or on the shell.

About 15 years ago I was "amused" when a very vocal animal rights person here on the island fought me tooth-and-nail over our program to eliminate feral pigs and goats from the island by hunting. She owned a sandwich and souvenir shop and sold dried starfish, sea shells and the like. I wrote a column pointing out the absolute hypocrisy in her position.

 

[TMHeimer]

NetDoc: Poor choice of words, not meant to promote divisiveness. The responses on this thread have been reasonable, polite, and interesting--and from quite a few of the SB "veterans" with much experience. Some of my past experiences on old threads and on boats were in fact much more divisive.

drbill: Excellent example of some of my past experiences, except the person involved may do the opposite-- chastise me for collecting shells while committing something perhaps considerably more ecologically offensive.

If I may be a bit dramatic: People who don't collect live (or even dead) shells because they simply think it's wrong, I have no problem with at all. Those who preach not to because PADI (or whoever) says if you ever even touch anything alive the world will shrivel up and die --and well, without any real knowledge of mollusc populations--well they're just taking that as gospel and thinking they are in the know, have been educated, and are 100% doing the only right thing--figuring why would ANYONE do otherwise, "do they not know what I know?".
On a boat in Panama, guy (PADI Rescue Diver) says to me "PADI says you shouldn't even touch anything live". I said "Yeah, and PADI says you should have a snorkel on your mask".

 

[Neilwood]

NetDoc: Poor choice of words, not meant to promote divisiveness. The responses on this thread have been reasonable, polite, and interesting--and from quite a few of the SB "veterans" with much experience. Some of my past experiences on old threads and on boats were in fact much more divisive.

drbill: Excellent example of some of my past experiences, except the person involved may do the opposite-- chastise me for collecting shells while committing something perhaps considerably more ecologically offensive.

If I may be a bit dramatic: People who don't collect live (or even dead) shells because they simply think it's wrong, I have no problem with at all. Those who preach not to because PADI (or whoever) says if you ever even touch anything alive the world will shrivel up and die --and well, without any real knowledge of mollusc populations--well they're just taking that as gospel and thinking they are in the know, have been educated, and are 100% doing the only right thing--figuring why would ANYONE do otherwise, "do they not know what I know?".
On a boat in Panama, guy (PADI Rescue Diver) says to me "PADI says you shouldn't even touch anything live". I said "Yeah, and PADI says you should have a snorkel on your mask".

I am guessing here but I think the oft quoted PADI position of " don't touch anything" is simply erring on the safe side of things. Most divers won't look up what can and can't hurt them or what species are in danger when diving in a new location (or possibly their home location) so it becomes a lot simpler to just say don't touch than to have to qualify it. Also the PADI teaching is probably aimed at newer divers for whom the additional task loading might push them to be unsafe (carrying too much, exerting themselves too much or forgetting the basic skills such as gas checks) By the time they have a few dives under their belt they might have a bit more knowledge and ability to think for themselves.

I would have no hesitation in grabbing a lobster (if I was quick enough, it was large enough and not a breeding female) or scallops as I know they are pretty abundant in the areas I dive (both are fished sustainably on a commercial basis) . Would I do the same with shells or creatures somewhere else? Possibly not unless I knew it was safe population wise and safe for me (no irritants/spines)

 

[TMHeimer]

Good thoughts, but I don't think so. PADI created Project Aware somewhere in the '90s to my knowledge. I have read that there was some sort of lawsuit against PADI back then (in South America somewhere I think). Don't recall what it was about, but to resolve it, part of the deal was that PADI start AWARE. Thus, they must continually push the project's principles. I could be off on some of this--perhaps those more in the know could enlighten us more.

Not touching something that could hurt you or overtask a newbie is just common sense. Then again at times there are people who lack this and PADI probably does consider that.

 

[ReefGuy]

I'm making a Christmas tree. Shells, sand dollars, sea biscuits, etc are the ornaments, with cat's paws and shark tooth garlands. All collected dead. Especially the sharks' teeth.

I'd love to come across a dead sea star for the top, but haven't yet in 2 years.

Got it about 1/2 way now.

 

[iamrushman]

thread read and noted.....

 

[Shasta_man]

Don't agree with your position TM and your own responses say that you only stick to the rules when you have to, which means you'll do what you want when you can. I'd prefer to take a picture or a video of it then leave it alone. If there are rules/laws regarding it and you stay within them regardless of whether big brother is watching, then that has to be fine even though my preference is to leave it there for the next people to enjoy. The problem and the reason we have to have laws to regulate common sense things is that there are a lot of people in the world and there's always somebody who doesn't want to take one, they want to take 50. Every week. Then they need to use dynamite to get the harder to get one, etc, etc then pretty soon, voila, another screwed place. And there is no difference between a "serious shell collector" and someone taking it as a souvenir, except the serious guy takes more shells. And PADI didn't tell me this, I already knew it from life experience and upbringing to enjoy, leave it alone so I can enjoy its natural behavior (for something moving), and take my memory or photo home with me. And PADI has to push the "look don't touch" idea because too many people don't have the sensitivity to realize it when it is necessary. Sure, in some places it will make little obvious difference to touch something but just go to any reef frequented by the pod people and you can see that, given enough time, yup, they screw it up. You see I used common sense there to distinguish between a place that can handle some handling and places that can't but unfortunately, that doesn't happen frequently enough with the masses. Look at commercial fishing: common sense tells you that you keep overfishing and you will use up your resource and have nothing to eat or sell, but they just keep fishing the hell out of it until supplies are at 3%. Unfortunately, several bad apples spoil the bunch and make laws for idiots necessary. I won't tar and feather you but I don't agree that we're stupid or overly aggressive for not supporting you taking souvenirs home.