Should we get pony bottles?

[DaleC]

Hey, I'm the last guy to criticize gear choices. My newest rig is being made out of rope and a rucksack. I was just offering that observation in reply to the carrying too much unnecessary gear comment. It always seems the other guy's rationalization is suspect while mine makes perfect sense.

 

[PfcAJ]

I uhh, just said that a free ascent in a current with an anchored boat isn't a good idea. So... I *think* we agree? Maybe? I think the point where we disagree is if a pony is the solution to the problem. I don't think it is. I think learning to be a good dive buddy is the solution rather than tossing extra gear into the mix.

Gear's easy. Learning to be a good dive buddy is hard.

 

[je76]

I uhh, just said that a free ascent in a current with an anchored boat isn't a good idea. So... I *think* we agree? Maybe? I think the point where we disagree is if a pony is the solution to the problem. I don't think it is. I think learning to be a good dive buddy is the solution rather than tossing extra gear into the mix.

Gear's easy. Learning to be a good dive buddy is hard.

There are always going to be circumstances outside of our control that may cause a team to endure separation. Then the question becomes are we trained, equipped and mentally prepared to be alone.

I do agree learning to dive properly as a team, creating a plan for separation and low visibility and executing are important (as to your points).

 

[TSandM]

I agree that being out of gas and separated from your buddy arise from the same source -- poor situational awareness. But is the solution to equip the diver to try to extricate himself from the bottom of the incident pit, or to give him skills to avoid going into it in the first place?

Catastrophic equipment failure is not unknown, but it is very rare. The odds of it occurring on the same dive where you have a buddy separation (assuming it is not your habit to get separated) are pretty darned low. It just ISN'T that hard to stay together, even when the viz is very poor. It DOES require the ability to control your descent rate and the ability to look around and do something other than inflate your BC and equalize your ears, but it really isn't hard. If you can't do it, it's a good idea to learn -- I think a lot of people are unaware of how little control of their DESCENTS they have. A lot of folks practice ASCENTS, but a controlled descent rate is part of good team diving.

 

[JamesK]

and that they will have enough gas to get both of you to the surface safely? .

This is one statement that kills me. Way too many divers do not properly gas plan a dive, and then rely on pony bottles to get them out of this situation. Would you agree that a pony bottle should NOT be utilized in the gas management plan, and that a pony should not be used to extend a dive? Well that is what many OW divers are essentially doing. On a dive to 100' it using a distressed SCR of 1CFM, using a safe minimum deco ascent rate it will take 40ft3 of gas to get two divers to the surface. How many people actually plan that?

My point being that if you are OOG due to an equipment failure and when you get to your buddy they do not have enough gas to get both of you to the surface, then as a dive team you have both failed at gas management.



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[kwinter]

For all the nay sayers, let me pose this question. What are the big reasons to NOT carry a pony bottle? You buy the tank and reg, and it's a one-time purchase (plus the periodic service costs). You mount it or sling it and basically aren't even aware that it is there. It provides you a layer of redundancy and safety that a standard octo does not, even thought the odds of needing it are very slim, and safety for those around you because you can pass it off to someone in need without having to use up your own supply. You shouldn't calculate the pony gas into your gas plan anyway, so planning isn't any more complicated.

I just don't see the reasons to say no to a pony bottle when someone is asking. Obviously just by asking, the OP has thoughts about it. Why discourage that?

 

[dumpsterDiver]

This is one statement that kills me. Way too many divers do not properly gas plan a dive, and then rely on pony bottles to get them out of this situation. Would you agree that a pony bottle should NOT be utilized in the gas management plan, and that a pony should not be used to extend a dive? Well that is what many OW divers are essentially doing. On a dive to 100' it using a distressed SCR of 1CFM, using a safe minimum deco ascent rate it will take 40ft3 of gas to get two divers to the surface. How many people actually plan that?

My point being that if you are OOG due to an equipment failure and when you get to your buddy they do not have enough gas to get both of you to the surface, then as a dive team you have both failed at gas management.



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Why would you plan for both divers to use one pony? If each have a pony and both run out of air, each person should be able to use their own pony to ascend. That is what I assume anyway...

 

[JamesK]

Why would you plan for both divers to use one pony? If each have a pony and both run out of air, each person should be able to use their own pony to ascend. That is what I assume anyway...

Simple. I am speaking of divers without ponies. I am talking about basic gas management.

Now, if a pony should not be used to extend gas, which most people agree on, then why are they in essence doing exactly that?

Also, I was replying to the statement of justifying a pony because your buddy will not have enough gas to get you to the surface.


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[Steve_C]

I try to be a good buddy. When diving with strangers or with a buddy midst strangers I hope but do not count on their being a good buddy even when the person is a few feet away. I want a self reliant backup if the buddy is not what they should be or where they should be. Pony is not part of gas plan. Have done an open water ascent (in low currents) rather than tap into the pony. Pony has air in it. I use the pony while diving nitrox and I am done diving for the day. So it is for my or some one else's emergency only. Knowing it is there is a calming influence when thinking about equipment or other emergencies at depth.

I quit caring about 45 years ago about what other people think of what I eat/drive/wear/dive.

 

[uncfnp]

I think learning to be a good dive buddy is the solution rather than tossing extra gear into the mix.

Gear's easy. Learning to be a good dive buddy is hard.

Why black or white. This or that. There is always middle ground, though it can be hard to find on SB. Carrying a pony does not negate good buddy skills. But good buddy skills does not eliminate all risk. Each diver must decide for themselves their dive plan then incorporate the gear and skills needed to optimize each divers safety.