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Should I get a package deal or not?
- Thread starter Leah Under the Sea
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I couldn't agree more."I wake up every day, right here. Right here [-]in Punxsutawney[/-] on ScubaBoard, and it's always February 2nd.. And there's nothing I can do about it."
"What should I buy" threads are the lifeblood of online forums. Not a problem at all.
What seems to be a recent "Groundhog Day" dynamic is someone coming along, offering very specific advice with an air of authority (albeit not enough experience to back up the advice/authority) and quickly deraiing the thread.
[video=youtube;OyBSrBqogPY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OyBSrBqogPY[/video]
In further response to the OP's question, she may want to consider buying a package of new & used gear. The OP could save 30% - 50% on a new gear package. The OP may save 40% - 70% on a package of new & used gear.
^^^^^^^Me too
I wont presume to tell you what equipment is best. At the end of the day there ain't a whisker's difference between any of the name brands. What ever you like will be just fine. For me when I was getting started money was definitely an issue so I got most of my stuff from Ebay. Some used, some new. I decided early that I loved Poseidon regulators so I bought a gently used one on Ebay and had it serviced. Other than a big block of brass most everything that could fail is replaced anyway. Exposure protection I bought new (I am the reason you don't rent wetsuits) but I went cheap at first and upgraded as it failed later. My BC and computer were used. Upgraded later. For me ebay and craigslist are my friends!! Saved thousands on my gear!!!
CAPTAIN SINBAD
Contributor
PADI is a training agency. It should have no business giving advice on how to buy gear. I am also a cold water diver, (ice certified) and here is what I would NEVER buy though PADI shop would recommend them highly.
1. SNORKEL (burn it)
2. Split fins
3. Unsealed Piston regulators. (Some of these sell for very high price but are not the best for ice).
4. Plastic paddle fins
5. Jacket style BCD
Here is what I would buy instead:
1. Sealed Diaphram regulator (Like Hog D1)
2. Rubber paddle fins (Scubapro Jets or Hog Tech 2)
3. Steel Backplate and Wing
There are a lot of retailers and dive instructors here who will give you a discount on the above items if purchased together.
1. SNORKEL (burn it)
2. Split fins
3. Unsealed Piston regulators. (Some of these sell for very high price but are not the best for ice).
4. Plastic paddle fins
5. Jacket style BCD
Here is what I would buy instead:
1. Sealed Diaphram regulator (Like Hog D1)
2. Rubber paddle fins (Scubapro Jets or Hog Tech 2)
3. Steel Backplate and Wing
There are a lot of retailers and dive instructors here who will give you a discount on the above items if purchased together.
OP - and others - should also consider that there's often a difference between "buying your gear at the same time" and "buying a package deal."
A "package deal" that has been put together and is on offer from a retailer will usually look like it's saving you money. However the package may...
- Not contain everything you need
- Not contain everything you want
- May contain stuff you DON'T need
- May contain stuff you DON'T want
The biggest watchout is for packages with an inflated "Original Price" listed based on the inclusion of something like a throw-away reg bag that the dealer had made in china with his logo on it for $3 bucks and lists as "a $69 value."
On the other hand, a good seller should be able to "put together a package" for you that meets your needs and does not contain stuff you don't want or need. Such a "package" may cost less than buying the components separately... or it may not. Depends on what you're buying and who you're buying it from.
Whichever way you proceed, always keep RJP's First Immutable Axiom of Scuba Economics in mind:
A "package deal" that has been put together and is on offer from a retailer will usually look like it's saving you money. However the package may...
- Not contain everything you need
- Not contain everything you want
- May contain stuff you DON'T need
- May contain stuff you DON'T want
The biggest watchout is for packages with an inflated "Original Price" listed based on the inclusion of something like a throw-away reg bag that the dealer had made in china with his logo on it for $3 bucks and lists as "a $69 value."
On the other hand, a good seller should be able to "put together a package" for you that meets your needs and does not contain stuff you don't want or need. Such a "package" may cost less than buying the components separately... or it may not. Depends on what you're buying and who you're buying it from.
Whichever way you proceed, always keep RJP's First Immutable Axiom of Scuba Economics in mind:
The best way to waste money in scuba diving is by getting a great deal on the wrong gear.
The blanket argument that all packages are crap gear is simply not true. Having been part of discussions within a shop putting together such gear packages, I can assure you that many gear packages are comprised of top quality equipment.
Gear packages can indeed be sold profitably for less than the components one at a time. You might think they can do that because they are taking a hit on each item but getting it back in the fact that you are buying more than you otherwise might. That is true, but there is more to it than that. In the case of the shop where I used to work, they were being advised by a marketing expert. The packages were comprised of quality items on which they got the highest profit margins. If you had bought a similar package of different models bought one at a time, they would have made less money, even though you were getting no discount on them. In addition, by steering the customers to those specific models, they were able to sell more of those models and thus get a higher discount from the manufacturer. This gave them even a greater profit margin in the long run. Finally, the packages included little items that you probably would not have bought at all, and those little items had HUGE markups that helped make up for the discounts on the other items.
The fear that they will wear out too soon may be just the opposite of what you should truly fear--they will still be in excellent condition when you decide that some of it is not what you really want. You will be frustrated at having to buy something new when your old gear is in such excellent condition and you can't resell it for half the price you paid for it.
I recently had a new student come in who was interested in tech training. He had bought a package from the shop where I used to work, the shop where I saw them putting together the packages. As soon as he started telling me what gear he had bought, I could tell what the rest of his gear was. There was nothing wrong with it in terms of quality. It was well made gear that would last a very long time. He was frustrated, though, because it was the kind of gear you abandon when you decide to be a more advanced diver. Almost none of it was appropriate to the diver he wanted to become. If he had been content to do all his diving on an annual vacation to a tropical resort, he would have been pleased as punch with it for many years, but now, only one year after buying it, he was going to have to dump pretty much all of it and buy a completely new set of gear.
Gear packages can indeed be sold profitably for less than the components one at a time. You might think they can do that because they are taking a hit on each item but getting it back in the fact that you are buying more than you otherwise might. That is true, but there is more to it than that. In the case of the shop where I used to work, they were being advised by a marketing expert. The packages were comprised of quality items on which they got the highest profit margins. If you had bought a similar package of different models bought one at a time, they would have made less money, even though you were getting no discount on them. In addition, by steering the customers to those specific models, they were able to sell more of those models and thus get a higher discount from the manufacturer. This gave them even a greater profit margin in the long run. Finally, the packages included little items that you probably would not have bought at all, and those little items had HUGE markups that helped make up for the discounts on the other items.
The fear that they will wear out too soon may be just the opposite of what you should truly fear--they will still be in excellent condition when you decide that some of it is not what you really want. You will be frustrated at having to buy something new when your old gear is in such excellent condition and you can't resell it for half the price you paid for it.
I recently had a new student come in who was interested in tech training. He had bought a package from the shop where I used to work, the shop where I saw them putting together the packages. As soon as he started telling me what gear he had bought, I could tell what the rest of his gear was. There was nothing wrong with it in terms of quality. It was well made gear that would last a very long time. He was frustrated, though, because it was the kind of gear you abandon when you decide to be a more advanced diver. Almost none of it was appropriate to the diver he wanted to become. If he had been content to do all his diving on an annual vacation to a tropical resort, he would have been pleased as punch with it for many years, but now, only one year after buying it, he was going to have to dump pretty much all of it and buy a completely new set of gear.
KevinNM
Contributor
Is the gear they are selling you the gear used by the experienced and competent divers you see doing the kind of dives you want to do? If everyone is using scubapro or aqualung gear and they are selling you (For example) mares gear (or vice versa) this is probably not good. Talk to divers at your dive sites, divers love to talk about their gear.
First of all, why are the really experienced and competent divers you see doing the dives you want to do using the brands they are using. Believe me, it is often by design. When I worked for my previous shop, I got great discounts on the gear the shop sold, and there would have been real issues if I had shown up to teach a class in gear they were not selling. At the moment I decided to leave that shop, they were requiring all instructors to wear the same gear, from shoulders to foot (mask was their choice), and the instructors were told to tell the students that they had chosen those specific models because they were the best ones available. Studenst were not to see them in anything else. Of course, those were the items with the biggest markup, not necessarily the best. If I had stayed with the shop, I would have been required to purchase and sue that gear any time I was with students. I was to tell them it was my choice, even though the wet suit was the only item I would have actually chosen.
On the other hand, I don't think brands are a big deal. ScubaPro, Mares, Aqualung, etc. all make good quality gear. The real difference is in the specific models of the gear you are using.
Bob DBF
Contributor
There are two ways to look at this:
First way is to buy the package and dive. Repent at your leisure and start researching gear and finding what you feel is perfect for the diving that you discover you want to do sometime in the future. Of course you will be diving in your gear while taking all the time you want until your next decision. If you stay in diving long $1,000 is a drop in the bucket, and if you don't...
Second, buy individually and selecting the best for the diving you may do in the future, may very well save you money in the long run, however there is no assurance you would not make a change later. Used can be a great deal if you know what you are looking at and how to evaluate it.
In both cases, at this point, you are relying on others to make your choices because, as a new diver, you are limited in your actual experience diving different gear.
Bob
First way is to buy the package and dive. Repent at your leisure and start researching gear and finding what you feel is perfect for the diving that you discover you want to do sometime in the future. Of course you will be diving in your gear while taking all the time you want until your next decision. If you stay in diving long $1,000 is a drop in the bucket, and if you don't...
Second, buy individually and selecting the best for the diving you may do in the future, may very well save you money in the long run, however there is no assurance you would not make a change later. Used can be a great deal if you know what you are looking at and how to evaluate it.
In both cases, at this point, you are relying on others to make your choices because, as a new diver, you are limited in your actual experience diving different gear.
Bob
I sell a fair amount of new gear to customers all over the world. Literally. I have sent regs and BPW's to Scotland, Germany, Spain, Australia, Singapore, Hong Kong, and Malaysia. My two biggest customer bases after the US are Okinawa/South Pacific and Western Canada.
The reason for this it seems is because I take the time to listen to what my customers want, need, think they may need in the future, and what they can actually afford. When I first got into diving the shop I went through did not bother to ask me any of those questions. The owner more or less "told me" what I should buy. He also made sure I understood that if I really wanted to be safe I'd spend as much as I was willing to on those items.
There is a huge difference in what someone can afford and what they are willing to spend. Many times you don't find that out until it comes time to pay the bill as it comes in each month. Had I been more aware of this and not been seduced by shiny d rings and flashy words the results would have been much different in terms of what I bought. I dropped probably close to 3 grand on gear in the first 6 months. Most of it ended up sold within a year as it did not meet my needs and interests. When those changed and the requirements did not meet the shops needs for profit and items carried the support dropped and I had to find other avenues to acquire what I needed. That shop's refusal to get the items I wanted cost them probably 15,000 in lost sales and training from me.
It also resulted in my now being a competitor of theirs in terms of gear and training. I know for a fact I have benefited from them continuing to operate in the way they did with me.
I'll match any other dealers prices most times on the items I carry and stand behind those products. I have two regs in for service now that I just pool tested the other night and they are on their way back to Idaho shortly.
When someone contacts me about gear it often results in several phone calls and numerous emails to make sure they are getting what they need, want, and can afford. I don't push a $400 reg on someone when a $250 will work for them. I've also talked people out of BPW's when they didn't really need them. I've been asked about an accessory I carry and advised them not buy it because a less expensive one would be more suited to them.
If they want a package deal that's no problem. It's just that we will assemble the package to meet their needs, not mine.
The reason for this it seems is because I take the time to listen to what my customers want, need, think they may need in the future, and what they can actually afford. When I first got into diving the shop I went through did not bother to ask me any of those questions. The owner more or less "told me" what I should buy. He also made sure I understood that if I really wanted to be safe I'd spend as much as I was willing to on those items.
There is a huge difference in what someone can afford and what they are willing to spend. Many times you don't find that out until it comes time to pay the bill as it comes in each month. Had I been more aware of this and not been seduced by shiny d rings and flashy words the results would have been much different in terms of what I bought. I dropped probably close to 3 grand on gear in the first 6 months. Most of it ended up sold within a year as it did not meet my needs and interests. When those changed and the requirements did not meet the shops needs for profit and items carried the support dropped and I had to find other avenues to acquire what I needed. That shop's refusal to get the items I wanted cost them probably 15,000 in lost sales and training from me.
It also resulted in my now being a competitor of theirs in terms of gear and training. I know for a fact I have benefited from them continuing to operate in the way they did with me.
I'll match any other dealers prices most times on the items I carry and stand behind those products. I have two regs in for service now that I just pool tested the other night and they are on their way back to Idaho shortly.
When someone contacts me about gear it often results in several phone calls and numerous emails to make sure they are getting what they need, want, and can afford. I don't push a $400 reg on someone when a $250 will work for them. I've also talked people out of BPW's when they didn't really need them. I've been asked about an accessory I carry and advised them not buy it because a less expensive one would be more suited to them.
If they want a package deal that's no problem. It's just that we will assemble the package to meet their needs, not mine.
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