Should I get a package deal or not?

[Leah Under the Sea]

I'm pretty new to diving (I have my PADI OW - currently working on AOW), and I'm starting to look for my own gear. At this point, it's a little overwhelming. My PADI OW book recommended buying a gear package with everything in it, rather than shopping for individual pieces. Is it really worth it to get a package deal with a BC, reg, octo, and gauge console? I've seen several kits from Oceanic and Aqua Lung going for around $1,000. If I can find one with a reg and BC that I like, it would definitely be tempting. However, for the price, I worry that the gear would be junky and cheap. I want something that will be safe, reliable, and hold up for several years. Any thoughts? Are these packages too good to be true? Am I better off just buying individual pieces, shopping used, etc?

For what it's worth, it will be for cool to cold freshwater diving, with occasional vacation dives in warmer water. I would prefer a cold water regulator. I'm estimating that I will dive 3-4 days per month, except in the winter. Obviously, if I feel inclined to get certified in ice diving, a $1,000 starter kit will not suffice I'm just looking for my everyday kit.

 

[CptTightPants21]

For the most part full packages are either crap or a poor value for your money...everything you brought up is an issue.

Look to buy things one at a time or used, test out different gear to see what you like, etc.

Every piece of equipment I dive from my fins to my hood is from a different manufacturer (which is why packages don't work because no one makes the best everything)

 

[tbone1004]

yes and no.

Here's what I'd do if you're considering ice diving
Call Tobin at Deep Sea Supply. Get hooked up with a SS backplate/wing from him. You can then add weight plates to a rig like that if you want to do ice diving without a weight belt. Cost about $500
Call Edd at Cave Adventurers or Mike at Dive Right in Scuba and figure out a regulator package. Cost about $500-$600 for a decent set.
Either one of those guys above will be able to help you out with a computer as well but I recommend grabbing something like a used Nitek Duo from ebay or something in the classifieds on here.

This will get you a much higher quality rig, better resale if you want to change things out etc, and you won't have to "upgrade" later.

 

[CptTightPants21]

For the most part full packages are either crap or a poor value for your money...everything you brought up is an issue.

Look to buy things one at a time or used, test out different gear to see what you like, etc.

Every piece of equipment I dive from my fins to my hood is from a different manufacturer (which is why packages don't work because no one makes the best everything)

I would say a complete set up, some used, some new that was good value and quality could be had for around $1500, maybe a little more depending on brand.

Search this site, there have been a lot of discussions on first gear, first item to buy, total cost of first gear package. It will probably be a little overwhelming, but it should show you that there is no wrong answer.

 

[stuartv]

IF you are going to buy stuff via mail order...

BCD with stainless steel back plate. Wing that is exactly the same as a Dive Rite Travel EXP wing, except for the label on the outside. $309

https://www.divegearexpress.com/dgx-custom-singles-harness-backplate-wing-package

Good quality regulators. Diaphragm (thus, environmentally sealed) 1st stage. Fully adjustable 2nd stage. $199. Buy two and have a spare 1st stage.

DC3-212 - Dive Right in Scuba

So, for right at $700, you've got good regs and a BC and just need to find a suitable set of instruments.

Personally, I have no problem buying good used gear. Several pieces of my normal rig were purchased used. But, for a computer, you should definitely be aware that buying used pretty much means no warranty. For that reason, buying brand new, from an authorized dealer, has a lot of appeal to me. I don't think any computer manufacturers (at least, of recreational dive computers - so, not talking about tech computers) transfers the warranty to anyone after the original owner. That does not mean that I personally would not buy a used computer. I just means that what I would be willing to pay for used is a lot less than if it were used but with a warranty.

I bought my computer brand new from my local dive shop to ensure I would have a warranty and a place to take it, if I needed help with it. Not just be stuck mailing it off somewhere.

I bought my regs from my local dive shop also. I paid a bit more than the price from above, but the extra money was worth it to me, partly to support the shop, and partly because I figured they would be doing the servicing on them and dealing with any issues that came up. In the long run, I think that has already proven worth it. They changed one 1st stage from Yoke to DIN for me and didn't charge me anything. And they took the set in from me, went through it, and adjusted the IP a tiny bit, because of a minor problem I had that was really just me, not the reg. Again, with no charge.

 

[Russoft]

Waste not.

My wife can't work in the U.S. currently, so we're on a single salary and dive on a budget. I already had regs+bcd. We bough everything else for about $900, for both of us. Many people buy equipment, use it a few times, then realize they're not really interested in diving. They sell it for a fraction of what they paid. You get good equipment for next to nothing.

Downside is you won't find your BP/W if you're trying to go DIR, in my experience. Most people are selling jacket style BCDs.

Biggest mistake I ever made was buying equipment early on. Rental fees add up fast, but buying a bunch of equipment before you know what you want is also a mistake. Especially if you buy used, like I do, you want to know what's a good deal and what's in good condition.

 

[rhwestfall]

There seems to be a reoccurring theme in recent posts as the price is so low that folks keep linking to it.....

the Hollis 212 second has a plastic air barrel. IMHO, not suitable for cold water diving..... especially ice

 

[CptTightPants21]

IF you are going to buy stuff via mail order...

BCD with stainless steel back plate. Wing that is exactly the same as a Dive Rite Travel EXP wing, except for the label on the outside. $309

https://www.divegearexpress.com/dgx-custom-singles-harness-backplate-wing-package

Good quality regulators. Diaphragm (thus, environmentally sealed) 1st stage. Fully adjustable 2nd stage. $199. Buy two and have a spare 1st stage.

DC3-212 - Dive Right in Scuba

So, for right at $700, you've got good regs and a BC and just need to find a suitable set of instruments.

Personally, I have no problem buying good used gear. Several pieces of my normal rig were purchased used. But, for a computer, you should definitely be aware that buying used pretty much means no warranty. For that reason, buying brand new, from an authorized dealer, has a lot of appeal to me. I don't think any computer manufacturers (at least, of recreational dive computers - so, not talking about tech computers) transfers the warranty to anyone after the original owner. That does not mean that I personally would not buy a used computer. I just means that what I would be willing to pay for used is a lot less than if it were used but with a warranty.

I bought my computer brand new from my local dive shop to ensure I would have a warranty and a place to take it, if I needed help with it. Not just be stuck mailing it off somewhere.

I bought my regs from my local dive shop also. I paid a bit more than the price from above, but the extra money was worth it to me, partly to support the shop, and partly because I figured they would be doing the servicing on them and dealing with any issues that came up. In the long run, I think that has already proven worth it. They changed one 1st stage from Yoke to DIN for me and didn't charge me anything. And they took the set in from me, went through it, and adjusted the IP a tiny bit, because of a minor problem I had that was really just me, not the reg. Again, with no charge.

Stuart have you have tried those Hollis Regs?

You seem to keep posting those regs based on their price. Price without value has no meaning.

When I recommend something 9/10 it is something I have tried and if I haven't I say as much.

I don't like the Hollis and as others have posted the quality is suspect compared to other brands. Everyone has their own opinion on gear, which is fine. A dive buddy of mine just picked up a set of hollis for doubles. I said don't, but he makes his own choices and I am fine with that. I guess I have more of an issue with you posting based on price and price alone, your posts never really offer a description such as I like it because, the one down side is, you can get instead, etc.

I do agree with Stuarts comments on buying a dive computer new, the warranty is important.

 

[stuartv]

There seems to be a reoccurring theme in recent posts as the price is so low that folks keep linking to it.....

the Hollis 212 second has a plastic air barrel. IMHO, not suitable for cold water diving..... especially ice

I have linked to them several times. This is the first time somebody has actually shared this info about the 212. Thank you.

I have the DC3/212 setup myself. I like them just fine. But, I have dived them a few times in water that was 38 - 39F degrees. Most of those dives, they've been just fine. But, one dive, I had my primary 2nd start freeflowing. Another dive (the same day), the same thing happened and I tried to get it to stop while continuing with the dive. I was swimming really hard, following my instructor, and thus breathing really hard. On that one, when the primary started freeflowing, I switched to my secondary, kept swimming, and was turning the breathing effort adjuster knob down to try and get the primary to stop. While doing that (it was taking a while because that knob will turn a lot of turns before it really clamps down on the air flow), my secondary started freeflowing, too. So, both were freeflowing at the same time (at 60+ feet, in 38F water, with <5' viz). Fun! I gave up, signaled the guy behind me, and made an ascent at that point.

Were those two dives examples of why a plastic air barrel is not preferred for cold water diving? I was only aware of people preferring a metal air barrel because they don't breathe as "cold/dry" as plastic. At least, I think that's what I read.

Do you know if it's possible to change out the air barrel in a 212 to a metal one?

 

[Kharon]

I bought my kit piece by piece (much to the dismay of my LDS). I did a lot of looking at what is available online and really considered exactly what I needed for the type diver I am. There are a lot of different configuration for BC/wings with all sorts of variations. Ditchable weights, back inflate vs jacket, pockets/d-rings. I looked at the features and for each one asked - do I need this and do I want this?

What I ended up with is irrelevant. The point is that I ended up with a kit that is exactly what I need and want. It lacks for nothing and was as inexpensive as possible. Do I have some high end equipment - yep. But the recommendations of my LDS would not have been as fitting as what I came up with and would have been far more expensive.

I hear a lot about buying high end stuff because you will grow into it. I call bushwah. First you have no idea if you are going to get into cave/technical/decompression etc. Second, at rec depths there just isn't orders of magnitude difference in performance to justify the orders of magnitude difference in price.

As an example. This spring I dove the Radau in Lake George. The bottom temp was 43°F at 102 feet. I have a Cressi AC2/Hollis 500SE on my main tank and an H2Odyssey/Cressi XS2 on my pony. They are very inexpensive and functioned flawlessly. My buddies seriously expensive (won't get into which brand) rig freeflowed as soon as we hit depth and we had to abort. Yeah - I know anecdotal - but my regs consistantly function in very cold water and to 130'. Moreover, they are simple and very inexpensive to service yourself.

Personally, I would never consider a diaphragm 1st. I much prefer an unbalanced piston. Much simpler and bullet proof. At rec depths and conditions I think this smoke about "environmentally sealed" is mostly manufacturer hype. I regularly do Eurasian Milfoil remediation dives where I am immersed in the muck (rolling and unrolling mats). Even after a season of doing that I've never found anything in my 1st stage. I do rinse it well each time. But it doesn't require more than that and a yearly open and look things over, clean and re-assemble. Diaphragm regs are complex and difficult to self service. Just my 2 cents.