Shore entries Bonaire

[SeaFlea]

DV and MossM, I guess if some divers aren't as diligent as others, artificial markers could get lost or forgotten and not removed as they should be. And in light of that perhaps its not good advice to be handed out.

I can say thats it difficult to remember a little piece of ground at 20 ft after looking at the exact same thing for the last 50 min or so. It all tends to look the same. We found that we needed something that would catch the eye. Something out of place in the landscape. But I agree we must be careful and think about the consequences of our actions.

Good dives, SeaFlea.

 

[DiverVince]

SeaFlea (I see I was calling you Sea Fly..sorry).. Taking this to it's next level, be aware that thousands of divers visit Bonaire & dive her sites each year. I've made enough dives to know that the best of intentions (ie removing an artificial marker) can go astray. Multiply this by thousands of divers and you'll see why the rules are in place. I've personally seen it many times.

So my advice is to do away with it, if the "drop off" begins at approx 40 feet, take a mental photograph of something unusual. When you go deeper, be sure to look back since it will look quite different when viewed shallow to deep, as opposed to deep to shallow. If you can't recognize on the way back, fall upon the age old tradition of the watch (oops according to MM that may be another crutch ). That is if you spend 20 mins going south, when you make your turn around start looking at 18 mins (assuming no current) at the proper depth. With practice you'll find you're able to do it! Have fun diving and practicing.

 

[Mossman]

MM...Well your "logic" is completely fallacious. I do strongly advocate using a compass. It's a piece of equipment (in my mind mandatory). Since when is that analogous to leaving artificial markers on a reef to assist exiting in the proper spot?

Actually, I was using the analogy of an artificial crutch, something that is really unnecessary in order to successfully navigate the dive.

I suspect if we took a vote on this with the diving community you'd lose. If using a compass is a crutch, than why use a regulator & scuba tank? Why a SPG? A BC? You get the point. All the above have one thing in common, perhaps you can figure it out? :mooner:

Of course I would lose, but that hardly means I'm wrong. If using a compass isn't a crutch, then why would leaving artificial markers on a reef be a crutch? That's the slippery slope you're on once you start calling names.

By definition, scuba requires a self-contained underwater breathing apparatus, so tank and reg are absolute necessities, not crutches. You are correct in that the SPG and BC are definitely crutches. In the good old days, divers didn't have the benefit of either and they still managed to dive. But I believe most would agree that both provide a great measure of safety nowadays. (Now a watch isn't a crutch, but another absolute necessity: how else would one know when it's time to surface for lunch?)

A device like a compass, however, totally unnecessary for diving most Bonaire shore dives, is hardly a safety measure. It's just as unnecessary as a 7' hose or a portable life raft or an underwater welding set for a daylight dive in Bonaire (night dives in unfamiliar areas, I might be more forgiving). Leaving artificial markers actually makes more sense for the sort of navigation one needs to do in Bonaire and I'd recommend them over the use of a compass were they not (1) unnecessary because of the proliferation of natural and already-existing artificial markers, and (2) illegal under the BMP regs.

 

[ncchuck]

There is no point in disagreeing with Mossman. His way is the only way. New divers should just ignore the advice of all the other divers. No compass - there only for poor divers, no aids - there only for really poor divers. Just follow Mossmans advice and you'll be fine guaranteed.

The logic that makes anyone think that permit form for the reef has anything at all to do with recreational diving is warped.

 

[Mossman]

There is no point in arguing with Mossman. His way is the only way. New divers should just ignore the advice of all the other divers. No compass, no aids. Just follow Mossmans advice and you'll be fine.

Sounds like sage advice. Just remember you didn't hear it from me.

Though I actually have no issues with other divers recommending hard-soled boots and leaving nothing of value behind in the rental truck and I myself use the aid of a good map and dive site guide so I can figure out where I want to go and how to get there, along with the aforementioned crutches of SPG, BC, and even hard-soled boots. I was merely disagreeing with Vince's opinion that, in addition to the above, a compass is a necessity as well. Can't I have my own opinion, or is it required that I follow the consensus of well-posted Scubaboarders because their word is final?

You seem a tad upset, though. Did you have a bad experience getting lost without a compass on a Bonaire reef perhaps?

The logic that makes anyone think that permit form for the reef has anything at all to do with recreational diving is warped.

Not at all. In order to take "anything" out of the marine park or put "anything" on the sea bottom, it's absolutely required under the regulations to have a permit, whether it's a mooring for recreational diving usage, or an artificial marker for navigation. Now I also believe it would be rather futile and hence way too much work and way too costly to bother filling out the permit application in order to secure a permit to be able to deposit artificial markers on the sea bottom for navigational purposes, hence my "good luck" comment, but that doesn't mean I wasn't trying to be helpful. Now you've gone and hurt my warped feelings. :depressed:

 

[DiverVince]

You are correct in that the SPG and BC are definitely crutches. In the good old days, divers didn't have the benefit of either and they still managed to dive. But I believe most would agree that both provide a great measure of safety nowadays.

A device like a compass, however, totally unnecessary for diving most Bonaire shore dives, is hardly a safety measure.

Well MM. I think we'll just agree to disagree. I started diving when I was 13 (way before mandatory certification came into existence) with the old "K" valve & then graduated to the "J" valve. Of course the double hose reg and if I really wanted to be safe wore a Mae West. Way before BC's; SPGs ( but I did have a depth guage on my wrist, a watch and my trusty speargun). So I think I remember the old ways of doing things.

I was one of the first divers to use a computer (remember the Orca Edge/aka the brick) and took a lot of flak from the local divers who just delighted in telling me "don't you know that electronics & salt water don't mix?). Fast forward some 25 years later to todays scene.

So in the dive community I've been around the block a couple of times and notwithstanding my experience I for one would not feel comfortable shore diving without a compass. Can I get back to shore on Bonaire without one..of course. Would my wife be pissed at me if I did not get us back to the exact entry point because of RA which affects her ankles? You betcha!

 

[ncchuck]

Well you are partially right about my first dive trip to Bonaire. I had never done any shore diving, this forum didn't exist and I was pretty nervous about shore diving. I bought a sonar device (no longer sold) that had two parts. One was left at a safe place in the sand on the reef and the other was on my wrist. I'll bet you a small fortune that the park service wouldn't complain about this) I didn't get lost, I had a great time and I'm not too proud to admit I used a navigational device that made my diving much more enjoyable since I didn't have to concentrate on navigation. Yes, I'm still challenged in that respect but I still enjoy diving, including shore diving, but I take whatever steps I need to help me get back safely. Maybe someday I'll be a good as Mossman.

 

[Mossman]

Well MM. I think we'll just agree to disagree. I started diving when I was 13 (way before mandatory certification came into existence) with the old "K" valve & then graduated to the "J" valve. Of course the double hose reg and if I really wanted to be safe wore a Mae West. Way before BC's; SPGs ( but I did have a depth guage on my wrist, a watch and my trusty speargun). So I think I remember the old ways of doing things.

Yikes, you must be older than Capt. Don :shocked2:

Did they have compasses back then?

So in the dive community I've been around the block a couple of times and notwithstanding my experience I for one would not feel comfortable shore diving without a compass. Can I get back to shore on Bonaire without one..of course. Would my wife be pissed at me if I did not get us back to the exact entry point because of RA which affects her ankles? You betcha!

Well, I'd much rather have you take your compass on the dive than your speargun, that's for sure, and I can fully understand protecting the wife's ankles. After Janna broke hers stumbling on loose dirt/rubble after a dive at Old Blue on the last trip, I'll probably be stuck carrying her tank on shore from now on as well as mine, so you can bet I'll want to emerge as close to the truck as possible. Maybe I should invest in one of those compass thingies, huh? (Actually I never do dive without one, being integrated into my D9, but it's a pain to use and I've honestly only done so in Bonaire to prevent getting disoriented on my solo sand dives looking for little critters to shoot.)

 

[Mossman]

Well you are partially right about my first dive trip to Bonaire. I had never done any shore diving, this forum didn't exist and I was pretty nervous about shore diving. I bought a sonar device (no longer sold) that had two parts. One was left at a safe place in the sand on the reef and the other was on my wrist. I'll bet you a small fortune that the park service wouldn't complain about this) I didn't get lost, I had a great time and I'm not too proud to admit I used a navigational device that made my diving much more enjoyable since I didn't have to concentrate on navigation. Yes, I'm still challenged in that respect but I still enjoy diving, including shore diving, but I take whatever steps I need to help me get back safely. Maybe someday I'll be a good as Mossman.

Wouldn't work nowadays. Someone would steal the land transmitter and you'd end up surfacing in front of the crime lord's home facing thugs armed with strobe clubs and heavy Rolexes used as brass knuckles.

Navigation by reference is all about awareness of one's surroundings, a skill that comes in handy for more than navigation. I sincerely hope that someday you'll be even half as good as me :cool2:

 

[BHB ScubaTroll]

Yikes, you must be older than Capt. Don :shocked2:

Did they have compasses back then?

Nope! We had to surface and pull out our sextant