Shop Closing

[Boozer]

Anyone buying on the net is part to blame. At least give Your LDS a chance to earn Your buisness.

You can not blame the consumer for a buisness being closed. The internet is a great tool and with that some of these shops around will need to lower their prices in order to stay in the game. I just purchased a set of fins from Sea Adventures and they were cheaper than I have found on the internet. All though the mask I bought was not. I have purchased many things from dive shops but if I know I can get a better deal I will. I think these manufactures need to figure out a way that the shop can make the same profit margine as a internet site.

 

[TonyW388]

:depressed: Well I hate that Diver Supply(Doraville) is closing. I stopped in there at least once a month just to buy, browse, and talk scuba diving. I would like to tell the guys there, "Thanks for all the valuable info."

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

You can not blame the consumer for a buisness being closed. The internet is a great tool and with that some of these shops around will need to lower their prices in order to stay in the game. I just purchased a set of fins from Sea Adventures and they were cheaper than I have found on the internet. All though the mask I bought was not. I have purchased many things from dive shops but if I know I can get a better deal I will. I think these manufactures need to figure out a way that the shop can make the same profit margine as a internet site.

Well... if the online shop you are buying from warrants the products you buy and you can buy your fills online(?!?!) I guess you are right.

Real shops have more overhead and often need to jack the prices up to handle paying whatever help they are getting. They typically don't have the massive inventories necessary to get the better prices from the manufacturers either. The plus side is that you can get fast service and repairs on any gear(read as you don't have to mail it off and write off days/weeks for maintenance time). Not to mention... you can have your tanks filled onsite.

Unless you expect everyone to invest their own compressors and do their own maintenance, you should strongly consider investing in your LDS.

 

[Boozer]

Well... if the online shop you are buying from warrants the products you buy and you can buy your fills online(?!?!) I guess you are right.

Real shops have more overhead and often need to jack the prices up to handle paying whatever help they are getting. They typically don't have the massive inventories necessary to get the better prices from the manufacturers either. The plus side is that you can get fast service and repairs on any gear(read as you don't have to mail it off and write off days/weeks for maintenance time). Not to mention... you can have your tanks filled onsite.

Unless you expect everyone to invest their own compressors and do their own maintenance, you should strongly consider investing in your LDS.

And that is where I was trying to say. Shops like this need to put pressure on the manufactures to lower prices for non online shops so they can compete with online shops. Don't get me wrong I love buying things from someone I can talk to and they show me how it goes but at the same time with times as hard as they are now most people myself included can't afford to pay an extra 20 or 30 bucks. I have a local shop that fills my air and does all of my repairs and maint. Somethings I will buy from that shop others I won't.

 

[scooby_diver]

Sad to hear. I liked being able to stop in the Doraville store on the way home from work.

 

[mike_s]

Anyone buying on the net is part to blame. At least give Your LDS a chance to earn Your buisness.

huh? Divers Supply has both store fronts and online stores.

Gary, I've heard GREAT things about your shop and charter operation and will likely use you on my next trip to Gulf Shores, but I can't see a valid argument of blaming this internet for this shop closing when they are an internet store.

but I do agree with you that one should at least give your LDS a chance to earn your business. A lot of times they can match pricing or sometimes they even have a better deal.

Real shops have more overhead and often need to jack the prices up to handle paying whatever help they are getting.

I don't agree completely with that.

I would say that Online shops have a much higher overhead. They typically have more staff, more orders, pay larger internet hosting sites, pay larger toll free phone bills, a much larger inventory, etc.

They just move more volume to increase profits and are able to offer lower pricing due to the larger volume.

If brick and mortar shops could move more volume with some method, then I guarantee that most business owners (LDS's) would jump on that.

They typically don't have the massive inventories necessary to get the better prices from the manufacturers either.

however that I do agree with. smaller shops can't get those discounts from the manufacturers without volume ordering.

just a fact of life no matter what product/business you're in, including selling electronics and washer/dryers.

The plus side is that you can get fast service and repairs on any gear(read as you don't have to mail it off and write off days/weeks for maintenance time). Not to mention... you can have your tanks filled onsite.
.

that's definately a plus, but my LDS does both. (so can't other LDS's?)

they have online ordering and also maintain a "brick and mortar" store. It's the best of both worlds because we can get internet pricing and also have local customer service, repairs and air fills.

nothing stopping other LDS's from doing that same thing, except the higher investment required to order more inventory, put in toll free lines, create a e-commerce website, etc. That's definately higher overhead.


I hate to see Divers Supply close this shop. I've been by it and its in a great location (in my opinion). But shops are closing for many reasons.

Divers Direct just closed their Orlando and Florida City Store and they are one of the biggest dive retailers out there. These were HUGE Stores. (I have a feeling that if DD hadn't closed their FL City store, that Divers Supply FL City store would have closed instead... rumor has it that it was going to but didn't after DD announced their closing).


I really don't see the dive industry doing a "turn around" in this year. (or next maybe.) so shops that don't have a business model to weather the storm for a couple of years are going to be in trouble.

I don't think this is going to be the last "shop closing" announcement that we see this summer....

but the internet is not to blame....

 

[divinginn]

One persons internet shop is another persons lds.

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

I'm gonna make a small assumption and say that there are far MORE brick and mortar shops than viable internet shops. Your LDS might be an internet shop, but they may be undercutting the prices out of SEVERAL other people's brick and mortar shops. Where are those people supposed to go when their gear needs servicing or repair? I guess it doesn't matter to you what happens to all the other shops out there since your LDS is undercutting everyone elses prices, sucks to be everyone else!

I still say a brick and mortar shop will have more overhead. One of the dive shops I use also works as an internet store, their tank monkey is the same guy who's filling out the internet orders - no additional personel needed. Internet expenses? Psh... There's enough people in this hobby where services and equipment can be traded out to both the internet/website guru's and store's benefit. Its one of the many shops I support because I get excellent customer service in person - I've never ordered anything online from them.

Can they all be internet shops? No, cause the volume of internet sales will be dispersed and prices will likely go up because of it. A little face to face time with your shop goes a long way regardless.

There was a time when it wasn't ALL about money.

 

[mike_s]

I'm gonna make a small assumption and say that there are far MORE brick and mortar shops than viable internet shops. Your LDS might be an internet shop, but they may be undercutting the prices out of SEVERAL other people's brick and mortar shops.

not sure how they are undercutting the prices of brick/mortar shops as they advertise all their prices at MAP per their dealer agreement, just the same as brick/mortar shops do.

some brick/mortar shops do sell though at "full list price", so MAP pricing is typically lower than MSRP, but it's it's not undercutting. It's just two different shops choosing to sell at different prices allowed per their dealer agreement.

Where are those people supposed to go when their gear needs servicing or repair? I guess it doesn't matter to you what happens to all the other shops out there since your LDS is undercutting everyone elses prices, sucks to be everyone else!

don't blame me when my LDS has better pricing than yours.... blame your LDS.

I still say a brick and mortar shop will have more overhead. One of the dive shops I use also works as an internet store, their tank monkey is the same guy who's filling out the internet orders - no additional personel needed. Internet expenses? Psh...

same with my local shop that sells on the internet. the guy who fills the tanks typically is the guy packing the orders. But they will operate a toll free number that costs them more, have to have 10 times more inventory and if you've ever operated a commercial internet site, yes they do cost more than suprbugman.com does.

just the increased inventory alone is more overhead, even if you leave out the other factors.

Can they all be internet shops? No, cause the volume of internet sales will be dispersed and prices will likely go up because of it. A little face to face time with your shop goes a long way regardless.

There was a time when it wasn't ALL about money.

you're right about that. they can't all be internet shops.

I agree that face time goes a LONG way with your shop also.

Even though they are an internet shop and a brick/mortar shop, they still usually sell to me for less than what they advertise. (call that undercutting if you want, but it's also the results in being a good customer)

 

[SuPrBuGmAn]

not sure how they are undercutting the prices of brick/mortar shops as they advertise all their prices at MAP per their dealer agreement, just the same as brick/mortar shops do.

Whats advertised and whats actually charged is typically very different among the higher selling internet shops, and you know this.

some brick/mortar shops do sell though at "full list price", so MAP pricing is typically lower than MSRP, but it's it's not undercutting. It's just two different shops choosing to sell at different prices allowed per their dealer agreement.

In order to get the same profit margins, I'm guessing they have to charge more(maybe even full list). Dunno about you, but I've never seen a rich LDS owner.

don't blame me when my LDS has better pricing than yours.... blame your LDS.

If I were to lose my LDS because internet shops stole all the business, I'd be quite pissed at the loss of not having anywhere close to bring all my divegear when they need servicing or repair. Mailing all that stuff around is NOT a good option for people who dive regularly.

same with my local shop that sells on the internet. the guy who fills the tanks typically is the guy packing the orders. But they will operate a toll free number that costs them more, have to have 10 times more inventory and if you've ever operated a commercial internet site, yes they do cost more than suprbugman.com does.

I'm sure, I got a heck of a good deal on my server space Its large enough to host a fairly large forum. I don't need it all, but I don't pay extra for it. Just an advantage of helping the server provider out when he was in need of some cheaper paintball gear back in the day(its cheaper to buy here in the US and ship to Canada than it is to buy in Canada - or atleast it was). But you don't know what I pay, nor what the plan I have should cost So I'm not sure why you brought up a severly neglected website - LOL.

just the increased inventory alone is more overhead, even if you leave out the other factors.

Is it though? Stuff sure gets cheaper per item when bought in bulk.

Even though they are an internet shop and a brick/mortar shop, they still usually sell to me for less than what they advertise. (call that undercutting if you want, but it's also the results in being a good customer)

You're not being singled out in that aspect. It goes that way pretty much across the board for the larger internet shops. They all start crying to manufacturers when one or the other actually advertises prices lower than MAP, when its pretty well known they are all selling for cheaper.

You're LDS is the online shop where you shop. You're purchases aren't hurting my LDS's business as you wouldn't be at my LDS even if you didn't shop online.

My point is that people buying from .com's in order to save a buck, which are not located near them are very much shooting themselves in the foot. You don't fit into this category. I wonder if your purchasing would have gone the same route if your LDS/internet shop choice weren't the same.