Shipping to Canada? Think Fast.

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Unfortunately Steve I have been charged Customs...the postal employee gave me a long drawn out process to get my money back...I had to prove the product was made in the USA and send them all the documentation.

There have been times I don't get stung...I should keep an eye on the shipping labels to see if the seller is checking "gift".

Oh well...


So between you and eperet, we see the GIFT idea coming out. I had never thought of doing that but I wonder if the Gov't see through that because there is a sale attached to the shipment. I accept that I and others may have been lucky and the first time my luck stops.....heck I consider paying GST unlucky.....I will look at the gift option.

I wonder what else a Buyer can do that the seller will cooperate with to get around these charges. I personally believe (based on personal and professional experience) that the big companies such as Fed-Ex / Purolator / UPS will clear the shipments every time.....properly. This comes with a price tag. I bought a BC from LeisurePro years ago....had it shipped via FedEx and 4 months after receipt was threatened with collections by Fed-Ex because I refused to pay their customs clearance charge of $55. FWIW....it was 2 months after receipt that I got my first notification of an outstanding charge from FedEx and another 2 months when collections was threatened. In the end I paid just to get them off my back
 
Someone here has said that I appear angry. This is true. But if history teaches us anything it should teach us that it is only when people get a little pissed at a situation that they deem as unfair or unreasonable then nothing changes. I am mad as I am today still waiting for a dive computer that a well meaning person sent UPS standard after I specifically asked for it to be sent USPS or FedEX Expedited and now I have my checkbook out.

For the record In my OP I wrote 'The Rules' in hindsight I should have put a smiley beside it as I do not propose they are final but an operational starting point to make a point that will be clear and memorable to those (in the US) who may not remember otherwise. I believe I mentioned in my second post that there 'may be room for improvement'. So add your input -please- but by the same standard I would ask that you don't marginalize others contribution by adding passive aggressive prases like "Idon't know where you get your information from".

Apart from my experiences let me direct you to Wikipedia - United Parcel Services page...

Fees for Canadians

The normal procedure for residential customers in Canada to import goods from the U.S. by mail is relatively simple; they are required to pay 5% GST on the item, plus a $5 CAN handling fee collected by the Canada Border Services Agency (CBSA) on behalf of Canada Post. This applies for mailed items greater than $20 CAN and gifts less than $60 CAN in value[22]. However, this does not apply to items shipped by couriers such as UPS.

When delivering packages in Canada, UPS brokers or clears the item through the CBSA and transfers a cost to the buyer.[23] These fees are not disclosed at the time of purchase by the seller as many sellers from the U.S. are themselves unaware of this.[24][25][26][27][28][29][30]

As a result, there have been two class-action lawsuits filed against UPS by Canadians. The first one filed in October, 2006 by Robert Macfarlane, a resident of British Columbia[31] alleges that the UPS brokerage is "so harsh and adverse as to constitute an unconscionable practice."[32]

The second filed by Ryan Wright and Julia Zislin in Ontario claims "that UPS failed to obtain consumers’ consent to act as a customs broker; to disclose the existence and/or amount of the brokerage fee; and to provide consumers with the opportunity or disclose to them how to arrange for customs clearance by themselves."[33]

It is possible for the recipient to avoid these brokerage fees if the parcel is being shipped by a UPS "express" (premium) service[23], that is, another service other than UPS Standard (Ground). Fees may also be avoided if the recipient clears the parcel themselves at a CBSA office.[34]...

...What makes this case unique is that UPS charges a substantial brokerage fee on ground shipments to Canada, when other Canadian small-package services apparently charge nothing (UPS "express" services) or a minimal fee (Canada Post).


ScubaSteve says... "Do you know what gets me upset? When somebody passes information off as fact and then costs somebody else a lot of money. That is potentially what you could have done if your post was left as is. What you posted is far from fact." he goes on... "I am not afraid to confront a person and will not back down from someone who is passing unsafe or incorrect information."

In my OP I suggested anyone interested should google 'ups canada class action'. If you had you would have found much to support my position and this as well,

From eBay Canada

UPS and Fedex Class action law suits have been filed in Canada. Sellers who ship via UPS or Fedex may not be aware that their customers are required to pay a 'brokerage fee' plus a C.O.D. fee to collect the brokerage fee (!) to United Parcel Service/Fedex. These fees are based on the declared value of the item and are steep, ranging from about $25 to $70 US. In comparison, there are usually no brokerage fees for items sent by mail (though Canada Post sometimes charges $5.00 for items over $20).

Unfortunately this is in ebay Canada and US citizens rarely visit ebay Canada for Shipping info or Guides - Hence This Thread.

To quote a bigger man than me, "Bottom line is" any one can say with absolute 100% accuracy that what I have presented is not 'entirely correct' - UPS for example, and for reasons unkowen to me, does not charge Broker Fee on every single standard shipment. But they almost always do in my experience. But ScubaSteve, to say that what I have presented is "not entirely true" - and that is what you said - you need not be an English major or a lawyer to see that you are questioning my veracity. I will assume that you simply chose your words poorly, and let it go. Sorry for getting hopped up on you.

But I am still mad at the Couriers and yes I need therapy but I'm off to Belize on the weekend so that should do me.

To close, I am not wanting to write Definitive Rules here - just trying to help International TRADE. If you have something to add, and back it up with some online data, I will edit to OP. with pleasure.
 
Let's all hug (joke of course :D) and agree to move on. It is a good topic and if we can find a way to reduce the fees (no matter what they are) for whatever we buy from elsewhere, then we are the ones that benefit.

Belize does sound like therapy.....I think we could all use that. Do you need the computer for the trip?
 
I have been usually charged brokerage fees on UPS shipments regardless of classification. These have been as high as $75 on a $150 item. Ridiculous! So I always try to ship USPS from the US.

Canada Post charges a $5.00 brokerage fee some of the time. Items declared at $60 or less are not charged brokerage or taxes. Even items over this cost are not always charged (my son just purchased a $1000 dry suit that came without duty or taxes) due to the efficiency (or lack of it) at Canada Post, especially during the Christmas season. My advise is to use USPS/Canada Post.
 
So between you and eperet, we see the GIFT idea coming out. I had never thought of doing that but I wonder if the Gov't see through that because there is a sale attached to the shipment. I accept that I and others may have been lucky and the first time my luck stops.....heck I consider paying GST unlucky.....I will look at the gift option.

I wonder what else a Buyer can do that the seller will cooperate with to get around these charges. I personally believe (based on personal and professional experience) that the big companies such as Fed-Ex / Purolator / UPS will clear the shipments every time.....properly. This comes with a price tag. I bought a BC from LeisurePro years ago....had it shipped via FedEx and 4 months after receipt was threatened with collections by Fed-Ex because I refused to pay their customs clearance charge of $55. FWIW....it was 2 months after receipt that I got my first notification of an outstanding charge from FedEx and another 2 months when collections was threatened. In the end I paid just to get them off my back

If you write gift with NO VALUE you may clear. I have had an experience where an aunt in Berkley knitted 3 scarves and sent them to 3 family members in Toronto, all gifts with values of $250 (insurance) each (they were nice scarves). We were hit with HUGE broker fees. We all refused them at the door (warm winter) and they were returned.

They were then sent USPS. No charge.

UPS sent all of us (4) collection notices. My wife (a litigator) wrote them back, on office stationary, telling them to 'get stuffed' in legaleeze of course. We have not heard hide nor hare in two years. Case closed.

LeasurePro ships FedEX Expedited to me - adds 20-25$ and saves me 50-60$. Last time I was talking to Errin at LP my order was interrupted by a UPS delivery of a 25$ wallet from the US with taxes/duty and a 22$ broker fee. I gave the UPS guy a piece of my mind :wink: - Errin heard it all and said "so I guess you don't want this UPS Standard" He said they 'hear about it' but didn't know how bad it was. LP will always default to 'standard' delivery, I always have to insist on overnight.
 
Let's all hug (joke of course :D) and agree to move on. It is a good topic and if we can find a way to reduce the fees (no matter what they are) for whatever we buy from elsewhere, then we are the ones that benefit.

Belize does sound like therapy.....I think we could all use that. Do you need the computer for the trip?

To be honest :wink: I'd be better off without it. Look at my dive count! I have 90% new equipment - I am overwhelmed on the learning curve. I guess I won't be chasing the puffers so much this trip. I just a sucker for the technology.


EDIT
DCBC ..."I have been usually charged brokerage fees on UPS shipments regardless of classification" - Really (!) - May I ask you, are you sure these were not Duty/Taxes? If this is so, it adds a wrinkle to my understanding.

Oh and BTW, those who have salivated over the thought of a Class Action in Ontario, you should know that the application to proceed was denied by the wise and regarded Bench a few months ago - So, in its current form, it is dead - Party on UPS!
 
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I've only shipped a few things to Canada... but UPS seems the biggest to hassle with.

I shipped some manuals (3 ring binder held printouts). UPS denied my shipment and returned it to me the next day with a brokerage form for me to fill out before they would ship. Plus extra fees.

Asked my wife, who worked in customs brokerage (but didn't ask before I shipped because I didn't think old manuals would be under any customs scrutiny) about the issue with UPS.... she laughed and said that UPS is a 'paper mill company'. They want extra forms for ANYTHING they can. she asked what it was and said "oh.. that's nothing. take it to the post office".

took it to the post office, the guy at the counter looked at the address and said "what's in it?" I replied "3 ring binders with printouts/manuals". he asked if they were of any commercial value. I said no. He said ok, slapped postage on it and off it went. no problems.


so... my opinion is that if you're going to ship something overseas, avoid UPS. (I'd actually reccomend that regardless of where you ship it. because UPS SUCKS).
 
You should have kept sending it without the form and have them keep returning it. At least that way you could have cost them money and had some fun while you were at it.

I've only shipped a few things to Canada... but UPS seems the biggest to hassle with.

I shipped some manuals (3 ring binder held printouts). UPS denied my shipment and returned it to me the next day with a brokerage form for me to fill out before they would ship. Plus extra fees.

Asked my wife, who worked in customs brokerage (but didn't ask before I shipped because I didn't think old manuals would be under any customs scrutiny) about the issue with UPS.... she laughed and said that UPS is a 'paper mill company'. They want extra forms for ANYTHING they can. she asked what it was and said "oh.. that's nothing. take it to the post office".

took it to the post office, the guy at the counter looked at the address and said "what's in it?" I replied "3 ring binders with printouts/manuals". he asked if they were of any commercial value. I said no. He said ok, slapped postage on it and off it went. no problems.


so... my opinion is that if you're going to ship something overseas, avoid UPS. (I'd actually reccomend that regardless of where you ship it. because UPS SUCKS).
 
I shipped some manuals (3 ring binder held printouts). UPS denied my shipment and returned it to me the next day with a brokerage form for me to fill out before they would ship.

It wasn't the printouts... We in Canada are very envious of your American '3 Ring' Technology and the Pentagon knows this. There are '3 Ring' export restrictions to Canada - Keeping us dependent on the inferior '2 Ring' British ERO binders.

Dates back to the '3 Ring' Technology sharing scandal of the 1950's where it was suggested that Canada was the one who leaked '3 Ring' Know-how to North Korea.

Totally Untrue.
 
<snicker> Damn the Canadians :rofl3:
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/peregrine/

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