Shearwater's take on the helium penalty

[rossh]

... of which 7000 came via our software, uploaded by our customers....



I'm not asking about injury rates necessarily. I don't want to presuppose what kinds of conclusions you might have been able to draw. As far as I know, you are not a representative of DAN, so I'm not asking for conclusions based on their data. I'm specifically asking you about your data. What conclusions have you been able to draw from the 150,000 dives in your database? If there are many, how about a couple of highlights? I'm just curious where the state of the art in dive research is heading.

No sorry... not going to share medical data.. DAN owns that data - it was collected under their banner.

The rest of the DB has procedural and practices information, settings etc.

Sorry.... not interested in sharing while Mitchell is sniffing around, spinning his wheels, trying to create trouble, again. In the past, he has lectured me on how my database works, and what it contains... but he has never owned one of our devices, or seen it collecting or submitting. He will be back here in a minute, telling us some terrible tale about why its no good.

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[stuartv]

... of which 7000 came via your software, uploaded by our customers....



I'm not asking about injury rates necessarily. I don't want to presuppose what kinds of conclusions you might have been able to draw. As far as I know, you are not a representative of DAN, so I'm not asking for conclusions based on their data. I'm specifically asking you about your data. What conclusions have you been able to draw from the 150,000 dives in your database? If there are many, how about a couple of highlights? I'm just curious where the state of the art in dive research is heading.

No sorry... not going to share.. DAN owns the data - it was collected under their banner.

Mitchell is sniffing around, spinning his wheels, trying to create trouble, again. In the past, he has lectured me on how my database works, and what it contains... but he has never owned one of our devices, or seen it collecting or submitting. He will be back here in a minute, telling us some terrible tale about why its no good.

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DAN owns all 150,000 dives in your database? Or just the 7,000?

If they only own 7,000, what about conclusions from the other 143,000? You have given me the impression that those are solely yours.

You cited one benefit, earlier - that you can compare actual dive profiles to on-the-fly calculated ceilings. You haven't been able to draw any conclusions from that? Maybe only that (say) 99% of the time, the divers stayed below the calculated ceilings? Ceilings which were calculated based on whatever dive parameters (e.g. Gradient Factor settings) the diver chose to use - so, in effect, ceilings the divers chose for themselves?

Any other benefits?

Earlier, you posted links to a few of the dives in your database and characterized them as having deep stop type ascent profiles and a couple of other categories of characterization. With the whole database (of data that does not belong to DAN) are you able to draw any conclusions about anything beyond what divers are actually doing during their dives? Or is it just a source for statistics on what divers using X1 and DR5 computers are using them for? With no ability to draw any conclusions beyond what the stats tell us about what they do (but not anything about DCS outcome)?

Can you comment on whether use of deep stop type profiles has changed over time?

If you're not at liberty to share, is there any timeline for publication of data and conclusions drawn from the 143,000 non-DAN dives in your database?

 

[Beau640]

How can you be making an argument about data that no one else has access too/ability to scrutinize and analyze? We are just supposed to take your word that your data shows what you say it shows? At least published peer reviewed data/articles can be scrutinized and discussed by everyone. Unless you are willing to share the data that you are attempting to use as evidence, then in my opinion it holds no weight because I will not just take your word that it says whatever you are saying it says. Let it speak for itself and publish it.

 

[rossh]

How can you be making an argument about data that no one else has access too/ability to scrutinize and analyze? We are just supposed to take your word that your data shows what you say it shows? At least published peer reviewed data/articles can be scrutinized and discussed by everyone. Unless you are willing to share the data that you are attempting to use as evidence, then in my opinion it holds no weight because I will not just take your word that it says whatever you are saying it says. Let it speak for itself and publish it.

I have made no claims at all. You will have to wait for DAN PDE to publish... if at all.

You can scrutinize it now - go look at it - its a public database. All the important info is there to see.... make your own conclusions....

Do no be confused by Simon's efforts to create a straw man argument surrounding this.

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[Remy B.]

Since which year these 143.000 Deco dives started to be counted ?, and how much of these went deeper than 40m and 30min bottom time and what O2 % and mixes, that is not medical informations

 

[joshk]

You can scrutinize it now - go look at it - its a public database. All the important info is there to see.... make your own conclusions....

Putting aside any other debates, where is the data for this database? All I see are rendered graphs.

 

[atdotde]

I have written up some comments about this study from a physics perspective on TheTheoreticalDIver blog. If you like, have a look over there: N2 vs. He, what’s the difference?

 

[Dr Simon Mitchell]

Putting aside any other debates, where is the data for this database? All I see are rendered graphs.

That's the point. There are no related data: particularly relating to outcome of the dives.

Simon M

 

[Dr Simon Mitchell]

I have written up some comments about this study from a physics perspective on TheTheoreticalDIver blog. If you like, have a look over there: N2 vs. He, what’s the difference?

Really interesting, thank you. I will point it out to David.

Just one point of correction. It was UWSojourner (a participant on this forum) who first generated the heat maps for depicting tissue supersaturation patterns during decompression.

Simon M

 

[udi]

For a given decompression ceiling violation, what difference would the He / N2 ratio be expected to make?

Thanks
Udi