Shearwater Perdix AI

[Diving Dubai]

A quick search of Google Shopping shows Eon's, without transmitter, at higher prices than what savsuds paid. What am I missing?

Depends where you look. In my area and Eon with transmitter is $811, A Perdix with transmitter is $1100 . That's quite the difference.

 

[Kevrumbo]

You don't seem to think these things would be useful to you. They certainly aren't vital to me. So, who exactly are you saying these things are vital to?

I just want wireless AI to work like it "should" when I am diving with a single gas supply. That would cover most of my diving and 100% of the diving that the vast majority of divers in the world actually do.

Why do you and a few others seem to constantly harp on AI and push this valuation of "if it can't do everything and the kitchen sink for my expeditionary cave dives, then it is worthless"? Fine. You don't have a use for it. Do you not "get" that the diving you're doing represents a TINY fraction of all the diving that happens every day around the world? You're a 1%-er. Why do you post stuff that carries the very strong implication that something is worthless to you and, therefore, it should be worthless to everyone else, and anyone who finds value in it is clearly an inferior diver who needs to get more training, be smarter, and/or work on their skills?

Wireless AI with 1 transmitter is perfectly adequate to meet all the needs of the vast majority of divers ... if it's implemented correctly, of course. Please stop telling us all that using an SPG and doing the math in your head is easy. Please stop implying that we are somehow lazy or not smart enough or not well trained because we don't choose to do things that way for our single gas diving. Some of us don't want to get bent, so we actually make a choice to not put ourselves in a position where we ever have to do math while possibly narced. Having a computer that tells me my GTR (with all the stipulations that go along with that) could definitely save me from doing math in my head in some situations (where I'm comparing against what I "know" without doing actual arithmetic) - or serve as a sanity check to compare my mental math against (when they agree, good, when they disagree by much, I better re-check my math).

@Kevrumbo,

Please consider that not all recreational and light deco divers share your mindset. For the purpose of rough discussion, there are about 15 personality types. It is easy to pick pairs that don't work well together at all because their minds work differently. My singular point from this yap is that not everybody thinks alike. Which means to me, no single approach to protecting the diver from harm is equally valuable to all.

All YOU "need" is a waterproof wristwatch and an accurate pre-dive measure of your gas load for a known dive location. Plan your dive. I have no concern that you would be able to dive safely under these most limited conditions. However, you would spend most of your dive doing mental calculations and looking at the time. Question. Why do you carry an SPG? For you, I see it as an unnecessary failure point for the purpose of convenience. I presume that you bring one along as a convenience.

Allow us our conveniences too...

Some past opinions & anecdotal accounts here on SB, on your "convenience":

Reliability Wireless gas pressure transmitters
Oceanic Datatrans (Pelagic Transmitters)
I've had it with wireless air integration
Air Integration and Back up gauges
analog vs digital gauge (SPG vs Air Integrated Dive Computer)
Will Air Integration in dive computers replace the SPG?
Air Integration Failure Yesterday
Vyper air fail
More problems with the Vyper Air transmitter
Air Integrated Dive Computers and SPG's
Why the dislike of air integrated computers?
Failure of Wireless Air Integrated COmputer and SPG
Air integrated computer and tec diving
Is Air Integration THAT important?
Which has a higher rate of failure a SPG or a transmitter?

 

[Lorenzoid]

Why do you need an expensive complex digital wireless AI/GTR unit when you can economically use the more practical, more reliable, no batteries needed analog SPG manometer to start with in the first place?

Well I could get a flip cellular phone to make calls. It is easier to use, has longer battery life, probably more reliable without a complex OS and you can physically remove and replace batteries. It also cannot be hacked and have all my contacts and pictures stolen and put all over the web. But hey I choose to use a smart phone.

I hate my smartphone. I like my mechanical SPG. Go figure.

 

[Diving Dubai]

Some past opinions & anecdotal accounts here on SB, on your "convenience":

Reliability Wireless gas pressure transmitters
Oceanic Datatrans (Pelagic Transmitters)
I've had it with wireless air integration
Air Integration and Back up gauges
analog vs digital gauge (SPG vs Air Integrated Dive Computer)
Will Air Integration in dive computers replace the SPG?
Air Integration Failure Yesterday
Vyper air fail
More problems with the Vyper Air transmitter
Air Integrated Dive Computers and SPG's
Why the dislike of air integrated computers?
Failure of Wireless Air Integrated COmputer and SPG
Air integrated computer and tec diving
Is Air Integration THAT important?
Which has a higher rate of failure a SPG or a transmitter?

Yes yes, all very good. I have 4 transmitters, my wife has 3. We have both done 250 AI dives without failures. AI when new was a bit hit and miss. Modern AI isn't. It works. Deal with it.

Is AI for everyone? No. Do you need it? No. Do I want to unclip my spg (yes I still carry them) when hanging on to a rock in a mother of down or up currents instead of looking at my wrist? Hell no!

Now I accept my kit configuration is tailored toward the diving I do, I don't suggest it's for everyone.

I'm happy to be proved wrong of course, but only by someone who's dived in my area & conditions. for the record, I buddied with a GUE tech 2 Instructor. He questioned my kit set up pre dive, post dive he accepted my choices and the rational behind them. - we didn't' even put him of a really challenging (by our standards) dive.

We all have reasons for our equipment decisions, deal with it.

 

[Kevrumbo]

Yes yes, all very good. I have 4 transmitters, my wife has 3. We have both done 250 AI dives without failures. AI when new was a bit hit and miss. Modern AI isn't. It works. Deal with it.

Is AI for everyone? No. Do you need it? No. Do I want to unclip my spg (yes I still carry them) when hanging on to a rock in a mother of down or up currents instead of looking at my wrist? Hell no!

Now I accept my kit configuration is tailored toward the diving I do, I don't suggest it's for everyone.

I'm happy to be proved wrong of course, but only by someone who's dived in my area & conditions. for the record, I buddied with a GUE tech 2 Instructor. He questioned my kit set up pre dive, post dive he accepted my choices and the rational behind them. - we didn't' even put him of a really challenging (by our standards) dive.

We all have reasons for our equipment decisions, deal with it.

250 dives and you still need four transmitters (your wife three) and an AI display in your face at the flick of a wrist to tell you what your pressure is? Is it that hard to perform simple subtraction arithmetic over depth & time starting with an initial pressure fill that you need AI? (Do you need a calculator app to figure out a simple cash purchase with change owed back??)

Your primary AI is in your head with an analog SPG manometer directly confirming what you already know. . .

 

[hazmat]

250 dives and you still need four transmitters (your wife three) and an AI display in your face at the flick of a wrist to tell you what your pressure is? Is it that hard to perform simple subtraction arithmetic over depth & time starting with an initial pressure fill that you need AI? (Do you need a calculator app to figure out a simple cash purchase with change owed back??)

Your primary AI is in your head with an analog SPG manometer directly confirming what you already know. Obviously you never learned how to use either. . .

By this logic, shouldn't you just be using tables and a bottom timer instead of a dive computer?

 

[Kevrumbo]

By this logic, shouldn't you just be using tables and a bottom timer instead of a dive computer?

You don't need a complex expensive feature like wireless AI to add to the already convenient & practical economy of a bottom timer/dive computer & SPG.

 

[stuartv]

Yesterday I bit the bullet and purchased a Perdix with AI and transmitter. I bought the AI and transmitter not necessarily because I will use it or wanted it. I bought it because the hype of folks dumping theirs Petrels or Perdix and buying AI (not just on scubaboard but on most every board I could find) - on resale - I don't want to be one of those that is looking to sell without AI. Because the market for a great computer with AI seems to be bigger than the market for just a great computer...

Hopefully I won't have to find out - if I decide to sell.

If you're concerned about how much money you'll lose on resale, well, you'd probably lose less money by buying a used non-AI Perdix now. I mean, used Perdix seem to be going for around $650. If you kept it 2 or 3 years, you could still probably get at least $500 for it, if it's not beat all to hell. With a PAI and transmitter at $1175, you can be almost certain you'll lose more than $150 if you sell that setup in 2 or 3 years.

Just sayin'....

I mine not criticising you on your purchase. but I have to laugh. I took a ton of abuse because I chose the Eon Steel with it's high costs. Now I see that SW with their AI have a higher price point yet people see this is acceptable.

A really good example of how much extra a good brand can command in price

Eon Steel is not an option for almost anyone doing tech dives as the algorithm is simply not acceptable. So, paying more for a Perdix means paying more to get something useful versus not useful (for tech diving). Even if the purchaser is not going to use it for tech dives, the value is still there in the form of (likely) superior resale value later.

Anyone thinking of buying one of the two really should consider the possibility of eventually doing tech diving. An Eon Steel will only last you "forever" if you stick to recreational diving. A Perdix w/AI will last you forever, period. Having the flexibility to accommodate unknown future plans is worth something.

2 years ago, I had no intention whatsoever of pursuing tech diving. Now, I'm working towards my next certification, for TDI Trimix.

250 dives and you still need four transmitters (your wife three) and an AI display in your face at the flick of a wrist to tell you what your pressure is? Is it that hard to perform simple subtraction arithmetic over depth & time starting with an initial pressure fill that you need AI? (Do you need a calculator app to figure out a simple cash purchase with change owed back??)

Your primary AI is in your head with an analog SPG manometer directly confirming what you already know. Obviously you never learned how to use either. . .

Apparently, all that simple math stuff is hard enough that even people who claim to know it and do it well can still mess it up and get bent. And I don't mean mess it up once. I mean, mess it up, then their buddy messes it up, too, so as to not prevent the team from making a mistake at the first deco stop. Then both people mess it up again at the next deco stop. And again and again, until both members of the team get out bent. Two people times however many deco stops is a lot of opportunities to catch those "simple arithmetic" errors and prevent either person from getting bent. And yet, despite how simple the arithmetic is, it can still happen and people still make those multitude of mistakes and get bent. It seems that narcosis is a b*tch!

It's a fact that people get mentally impaired by narcosis. It's a fact that narcosis is not completely predictable. It's a fact that people can get narced at 100' or even shallower - even if they've never been narced before. It seems to be pretty well accepted now that once onset of narcosis has occurred it does not just magically go away completely on ascent - there is a level of impairment that lingers. Anyone that chooses to dive relying on math done in the water - and especially after they've been at depth - when they have an option to use a simple, reliable computer to do the "simple arithmetic" for them (or at least to sanity check their mental math) is making a choice that I would deem sufficiently unsafe that I would choose not to dive with them.*

Would you dive with someone in big double steel tanks, a thick wetsuit, and no redundant buoyancy? "My buddy and I won't BOTH screw up the mental math" seems like a lot more suspect of a statement than "my wing won't have a total failure". If you have sufficient distrust of a wing to use redundant buoyancy, why would you not have at least as much distrust of doing mental arithmetic after being at narcosis-inducing depths?

Insulting people who choose to use their computer for a purpose that computers are good at - namely doing simple arithmetic for you - as a way to provide a safety backstop for their diving (as well as a data logging tool) seems, well, to be polite, extremely juvenile.


* No, I'm not saying I won't dive with anyone that doesn't have AI. I'm saying that I wouldn't be likely to dive with someone who's only way of knowing they have enough air is by doing mental math during the dive.

 

[stuartv]

You can get it cheaper online. I have seen $1175 Perdix AI with 1 transmitter,$935 Perdix AI no transmitter, and $849 Perdix. I just support my LDS when I can. I got my Perdix for $799 before the Canadian dollar changed. I am still debating selling my Perdix since I have a Hollis TX1 as a backup.

The flexibility the Perdix AI offers me is worth its cost.

I have a SeaBear H3 and a TX-1 w/AI as a backup. My plan is to sell the TX-1 and replace it with a Perdix AI. If my primary was a Perdix, I'd still do the same thing. Sell the TX-1 and have a Perdix AI as primary and Perdix as backup.

That answer would cost more money, but the extra would be worth it, to me, to have a Perdix as backup versus a TX-1 (given that you have a primary that is capturing/logging your gas data). Personally, I don't see any significant value in having 2 computers that are both reading the same transmitter. Especially when one of the computers reading the transmitter has the reliability we expect from a Shearwater.

 

[stuartv]

You don't need a complex expensive feature like wireless AI to add to the already convenience & practicality and economy of a dive computer & SPG.

You don't NEED a complex expensive dive computer to add to the already convenience, practicality, and economy of a mechanical depth gauge, Casio dive watch, and SPG....

My dad started diving in north Florida around 1959 or 1960. He dived many caves and black water rivers. Then he dived in the Navy. He did deco dives on air to 200'. He never had an SPG on his rig and scoffs at anyone who says they NEED an SPG....