Shearwater coming out with new DC?

[buddhasummer]

Back on track, I had a chance to compare one side by side with a Petrel and although a, IMO, nicer smaller package it does not look as robust as a Petrel. I think a Petrel will stand up to knocks etc much better. Does look nice though being smaller.

 

[KenGordon]

What does a child have to do with it?.

My point is that a novice diver is not in the position to choose GF values. If they also fall for the long NDL and play about wth the settings then they have been given the rope, instructions on how to tie a noose and just need to supply the stool themselves.

Thus recommending a computer which requires choosing those values to a novice diver is a mistake.

If you believe you are adequately informed with regard to different deco methods and can read across from one to another then great go for it. Take your DSAT computer along for the ride and let us know how it compares to the 45/95 setting.

 

[Shearwater]

My point is that a novice diver is not in the position to choose GF values. If they also fall for the long NDL and play about wth the settings then they have been given the rope, instructions on how to tie a noose and just need to supply the stool themselves.

Maybe I can help to explain some of the issues here. First, yes the diver can chose to set the computer to technical mode instead of the recreational mode. They will probably be disappointed though, because the technical mode defaults to a more conservative GF setting than the recreational mode. Tech divers need to add conservatism as they go longer and deeper.

Thus recommending a computer which requires choosing those values to a novice diver is a mistake.

There is no requirement for a recreational diver to chose specific GF values. In recreational mode, the computer will offer three conservatism levels for the diver to choose from. In technical mode, it will default to 30/70 which we think is well supported by current evidence.

If you believe you are adequately informed with regard to different deco methods and can read across from one to another then great go for it. Take your DSAT computer along for the ride and let us know how it compares to the 45/95 setting.

If you take your DSAT computer along with you on a Shearwater computer set for recreational mode in the default conservatism, it will match very well.

I understand that you are trying to convince people that the Shearwater computers are somehow dangerous for the beginning user, but I think you have to really stretch your argument. You are suggesting the the diver buys this computer cold on the internet I guess. If they were buying it on the recommendation of a friend, presumably they would get some advice with the recommendation.

So they get their computer that cost them quite a bit of money and they don't read the manual. By the way, the manual is easy to read with lots of white-space and pictures. They also don't go to our website to look around. They also don't ask any other mentor that they have worked with while getting their certifications. I find this very unlikely.

Now, without any advice or information from the manual, they choose OC-Tech as the mode of operation, even though they know they are Nitrox divers. When they find that the computer is more conservative than they are expecting, they decide to change the GF settings. Wait a minute. Where did they learn about GF settings and that changing them would change their profiles? Is that really what their next step would be?

While I would never try to make the argument that dive computers can guarantee that you won't get bent, I think your scenario is a bit thin.

Bruce

 

[KenGordon]

I understand that you are trying to convince people that the Shearwater computers are somehow dangerous for the beginning user, but I think you have to really stretch your argument. You are suggesting the the diver buys this computer cold on the internet I guess. If they were buying it on the recommendation of a friend, presumably they would get some advice with the recommendation.

It is the combination of the advice to buy a totally flexible computer along with the 'short NDLs are worse than long NDLs' point of view pushed by SB posters which I think is a problem. So the 'mentoring' is online and removed from personal responsibility.

Your manuals are fine, but are not a comprehensive lesson in decompression theory. How are divers supposed to choose the GF numbers?

Btw I do own an use a petrel. I may well buy a perdix as a backup.

 

[drrich2]

You are suggesting the the diver buys this computer cold on the internet I guess. If they were buying it on the recommendation of a friend, presumably they would get some advice with the recommendation.

Some new rec. divers post asking about gear options on Scuba Board, and Petrels sometimes get recommended. Some of these newcomers probably don't have a personal relationship with any forum members, so it's not a big stretch to think some of them will buy a Petrel or Predix with about as much forethought as they might pick up a Geo 2, etc... I'm not saying the majority, of course.

I'm not familiar with the literature included in the package. Just how 'OW newbie' friendly is the Petrel literature?

Richard.

P.S.: One of my 2 DC's is an old Oceanic VT3, and while I like it okay, in my view the manual is awful. If Shearwater's manual is as good as I'm hearing, rock on!

 

[gcarter]

Some new rec. divers post asking about gear options on Scuba Board, and Petrels sometimes get recommended. Some of these newcomers probably don't have a personal relationship with any forum members, so it's not a big stretch to think some of them will buy a Petrel or Predix with about as much forethought as they might pick up a Geo 2, etc... I'm not saying the majority, of course.

I'm not familiar with the literature included in the package. Just how 'OW newbie' friendly is the Petrel literature?

Richard.

P.S.: One of my 2 DC's is an old Oceanic VT3, and while I like it okay, in my view the manual is awful. If Shearwater's manual is as good as I'm hearing, rock on!

The manual for my Petrel is much better than the one for my Veo 2.0.

 

[buddhasummer]

The manual for my Petrel is much better than the one for my Veo 2.0.

You should see the manual for the Cressi Edy2 now that will melt your brain.

 

[lowviz]

...//... Your manuals are fine, but are not a comprehensive lesson in decompression theory. How are divers supposed to choose the GF numbers? ...

I see an underlying assumption here that I believe to be invalid.

I know a lot of tech divers who didn’t change one mental gear when they went tech. They just took the courses, traded in their NDL DC’s in for decompression DC’s and are still safely and happily diving away by strictly following the rules. To them, GF’s are who you cuddle up with post-dive.

I took OW twice, once with a well-respected PADI instructor and once with an instructor who works closely with Bruce Wienke. So my first OW was all the standard stuff and my second OW was heavy into optional RGBM material. Bring it on! I was just as interested in decompression back then as I am now. You either are or you aren’t and I refuse to judge. You can dive safely with either mindset.

...//... P.S.: One of my 2 DC's is an old Oceanic VT3, and while I like it okay, in my view the manual is awful. ...

The manual for my Petrel is much better than the one for my Veo 2.0.

You should see the manual for the Cressi Edy2 now that will melt your brain.

There is a pattern emerging.

There are endless options to choose from when designing a recreational DC, none of them are anything new. Even Shearwater said that you can make a Petrel act like another manufacturer’s DC.

So why pursue this?

I would love to see Shearwater take THEIR choices among the available options. This is what they do best.

Present both their choices and their take on “safety factor user-tweaks” to the recreational diver through one of their enlightened user interfaces, add a commonly available battery, solid buttons (I LOVE the piezo’s, even with cold water gloves), and a sleek smallish and very distinctive package.

Add a “point and shoot” dummy-down option to all the above so that ANYBODY can dive it with nitrox right out of the box with "the push of a button".

Manual? They know how to do that already.

Can’t miss.

Added just for fun. http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/co...s-uemis-sda-oled-post5208482.html#post5208482

 

[Jax]

I'm not familiar with the literature included in the package. Just how 'OW newbie' friendly is the Petrel literature?

Richard.

P.S.: One of my 2 DC's is an old Oceanic VT3, and while I like it okay, in my view the manual is awful. If Shearwater's manual is as good as I'm hearing, rock on!

Check it out for yourself: https://d2uy6nbe9j4vef.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/PetrelManual_DocRevD.pdf

 

[lowviz]

Yikes, Jax!

You are comfortable with someone comparing SW's full-blown tech manual to another manufacturer's recreational manual? :shocked2:

Now there is a compliment! No, the Petrel isn't and never was intended to be a recreational DC. Amazing thing is, they are so good at UI's that it becomes a half-valid consideration...

This brings up my impression of SW's rec mode. I don't believe that this was ever intended to be their entry into the rec market. I see it as the "Easy Button" for tech divers who just want to knock off a simple dive. It was meant to be a convenience, and it truly is. I use it.

Same thinking would apply to their rec model (if they ever design one). Add an "Easy Button" for rec divers, too. This time it would be more like:

"I have no clue as to what I'm doing, but if I set it to this, I can dive safely and come up with everybody else."