Shark Massacre in New York - Coverage - Very Sad

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Actually these are not half truths - many fishermen and shark scientists around the world will confirm all of this. Most sharks die - do you think they track the sharks that are thrown back with hooks embedded in their stomachs or jaws damaged? Catch and release for fish and sharks is very different. Many of these sharks die from the hooks ripping their stomachs apart.
 
"All of the sharks taken in the NY tournaments are edible. In fact the larger of the 2 major tournaments in NY takes the sharks from the anglers and donates the steaks to local food banks."

*** The larger one refused the food this year (Long Island Cares) because of the inhumane nature of these events. The other is smoke and mirrors...

"In another tournament only 2 species are allowed, Threshers and Makos."

*** Sure, but they catch Tigers, Hammerheads, and Blues too.

"These fish are considered quite delectable (they have bladders) and are prized table fare. I myself will order a mako steak in any restaurant any time I see it."

*** Makos are in grave danger as many other shark species. Just because it is not illegal doesn't mean that it is sustainable.

"Furthermore, marine biologists are always present at these events and gather more information to preserve the species than they could otherwise gather in a month and at virtually no cost."

** The scientists do not need these events to get that data, they take advantage of the event because it will happen anyway. Most scientists condemn these events.

"Not only from the sharks taken to the scales (which is at most 1 per boat & obviously only the successful boats) but most fishermen tag and release fish that are too small or not an eligible species."

*** Go to any fishing forum and you'll see the fishermen gloating over how many sharks they "catch & release" before they bring in that big one. And contrary to what you may want to think - many of the released sharks do in fact die.

"I'm not trying to say that the oceans aren't in trouble, but a few fishing tournaments are not what's causing the problems."

*** 100% correct. In fact, it's a terrible shame that commercial overfishing, by-catch, and finning are decimating the oceans and shark populations. But it has gotten to the point that the tournaments in aggregate may be killing thousands of sharks and worse they are glorifying the capture and removal of an apex predator that the media continues to villify every time someone is bit, and it's not making it any easier for the real data and legislation to get out there. It has taken this long just to get congress to strengthen it's anti finning laws, and that hasn;t formally passed yet.

*** My points here are simply that it's a much bigger and more complicated issue. Will shark tournaments finsih off the last of the sharks? Of course not, and no body is claiming that. But they are actually killing thousands of sharks (yes some do live but a good percentage don't, just ask Frank Mudas in Montauk), and far worse they are glorifying the act. We must all do what we can do generate awareness , education and conservation. As divers we are often the eyes and ears to the health of the oceans. We live in different times today and if we are not careful and take the time to protect the species that matter, eventually it will be too late. Maybe the sport fishermen should help in the efforts against commercial over fishing as well. They are out on the ocean, they can document what's happening too.

I have no personal agenda. My agenda to to create awareness and education about what really matters and that is to conserve what the ocean needs.
 
Actually these are not half truths - many fishermen and shark scientists around the world will confirm all of this. Most sharks die - do you think they track the sharks that are thrown back with hooks embedded in their stomachs or jaws damaged? Catch and release for fish and sharks is very different. Many of these sharks die from the hooks ripping their stomachs apart.

This sounds like a lot of garbage. Sharks are extremely tough and I know that shark researchers use hook and line to capture, tag and release many sharks. I have helped in the operation. The mortaility from this practice is not high.

Where do you come up with your statisics on release mortality on sharks? Do you have any data or are you making this up?
 
This sounds like a lot of garbage. Sharks are extremely tough and I know that shark researchers use hook and line to capture, tag and release many sharks. I have helped in the operation. The mortaility from this practice is not high.

Where do you come up with your statisics on release mortality on sharks? Do you have any data or are you making this up?


Hey Pal. Stop trying to confuse the issue with facts. And just as I was about to see if I could introduce a bit of carbon emission hysteria into the thread too.... Darn you. :wink:
 
"All of the sharks taken in the NY tournaments are edible. In fact the larger of the 2 major tournaments in NY takes the sharks from the anglers and donates the steaks to local food banks."

*** The larger one refused the food this year (Long Island Cares) because of the inhumane nature of these events. The other is smoke and mirrors...
Actually, the fish was refused because of the mercury content. There was never any such "inhumane" comment made by any official to my knowledge.
"In another tournament only 2 species are allowed, Threshers and Makos."

*** Sure, but they catch Tigers, Hammerheads, and Blues too.
Sorry, no tiger sharks have ever been caught at this tournament and in mid June hammerheads are simply not present in the waters targeted. Bluesharks, yes, many of them. And as for that mortality rate, it is estimated to be less than 10%. I myself have caught tagged sharks actively feeding and healthy with several hooks in varying states of decay in them. Their digestive acids does a quick job on the hooks even in their mouths. It has been documented that an average hook will decay to nothing in a shark in less than 2 weeks. The shark I caught was tagged less than 6 days prior and the hooks appeared to be years old (& 1 hook was imbedded deep in it's throat-the most decayed hook of them all). The shark was very healthy.
"These fish are considered quite delectable (they have bladders) and are prized table fare. I myself will order a mako steak in any restaurant any time I see it."

*** Makos are in grave danger as many other shark species. Just because it is not illegal doesn't mean that it is sustainable.
The recreational catch rate on these fish is very low. The effort to get one is quite high. As I said before, commercial gill netters and long liners take in a few hours with a fleet of recreational fishermen take in a year.
"Furthermore, marine biologists are always present at these events and gather more information to preserve the species than they could otherwise gather in a month and at virtually no cost."

** The scientists do not need these events to get that data, they take advantage of the event because it will happen anyway. Most scientists condemn these events.
Sorry, I respect your opinion but this is simply not true. I know many marine biologists and most consider these tournaments a bounty of information and look forward to it. As I pointed out this is a cheap way for them to do some studies. All other alternatives are usually outside of their budget. I have never heard of any biologists comment negatively against the tournaments. In fact I asked one that was examining a fish I brought in 1 year and she laughed and said: "that was started by PETA".
"Not only from the sharks taken to the scales (which is at most 1 per boat & obviously only the successful boats) but most fishermen tag and release fish that are too small or not an eligible species."

*** Go to any fishing forum and you'll see the fishermen gloating over how many sharks they "catch & release" before they bring in that big one. And contrary to what you may want to think - many of the released sharks do in fact die.
The mortality rate is under 10% Documented. The return rate on tagged sharks is well over 70%
"I'm not trying to say that the oceans aren't in trouble, but a few fishing tournaments are not what's causing the problems."
*** 100% correct. In fact, it's a terrible shame that commercial overfishing, by-catch, and finning are decimating the oceans and shark populations. But it has gotten to the point that the tournaments in aggregate may be killing thousands of sharks and worse they are glorifying the capture and removal of an apex predator that the media continues to villify every time someone is bit, and it's not making it any easier for the real data and legislation to get out there. It has taken this long just to get congress to strengthen it's anti finning laws, and that hasn;t formally passed yet.

*** My points here are simply that it's a much bigger and more complicated issue. Will shark tournaments finsih off the last of the sharks? Of course not, and no body is claiming that. But they are actually killing thousands of sharks (yes some do live but a good percentage don't, just ask Frank Mudas in Montauk), and far worse they are glorifying the act. We must all do what we can do generate awareness , education and conservation. As divers we are often the eyes and ears to the health of the oceans. We live in different times today and if we are not careful and take the time to protect the species that matter, eventually it will be too late. Maybe the sport fishermen should help in the efforts against commercial over fishing as well. They are out on the ocean, they can document what's happening too.

I have no personal agenda. My agenda to to create awareness and education about what really matters and that is to conserve what the ocean needs.
I respect your opinions and share some of your feelings, but mortality of sharks from tournaments world wide cannot be measured in the thousands. The Hudson Anglers tournament, which is the largest in the NY area, typically hangs (sorry, I know this word will upset some people) under 20 fish. That's 20 fish for 250 boats. Maybe another 20 taken that are too small and turned away.
Alas, this year was evident of a new trend. The average shark grounds is at least 30 miles off shore in the NY area. With fuel prices reaching $6 per gallon many more boats are deciding to fish for more local species and not sharks. I find it interesting though how people get upset over a shark tournament but not about a fisherman returning to the dock with 40 seabass or 60 porgies or 30 bluefish.
Yes, I am an avid fishermen. However I will not take any fish that I or my crew does not want for the table. We almost never fill our limit (fishing today is so heavily regulated) and not because we cant. We take only what we will eat in a week then go out next week and catch another meal or 2 (conditions (& fish) permitting). I love the ocean with all my soul. I love sea life. In my fishing ventures I have seen, all off the coast of Long Island, ocean turtles of enormous proportions, Whales including belugas, humpback, gray, right and pilot. I've fished among dolphins and had them snatch half of my catch and enjoyed watching it (before anyone gets crazy, I have never ever heard of a dolphin getting caught on a hook, they are simply too smart and keen eyed for that), I had sunfish estimated to be over 400 pounds rub up against the hull of my boat to scrap off parasites, bird life of all types. I've seen a free jumping mako sever the tail of a lesser fish (a blue shark) and then close in and begin to eat it before they sunk out of my sight.
& I know my sport does a lot to help the health of the oceans. Our fuel, boats, equipment, electronics, tackle, everything is taxed with a special tax that goes to ocean research and conservation (mostly eventually to support commercial fishing interest unfortunately)
My respect for the oceans and the creatures that swim in it is imitless and my friends are the same or they would not be my friends.
 
With all due respect - these are ignorant statements. I work with researchers and scientists and the mortality rate is not documented, it is assumed as all of your observations and statements are. The mortality rate is NOT under 10%. And it is NOT documented. Any worthwhile shark researcher will confirm that. But it is definitely higher than what most people think.

The one thing you are very right about is that the decline of sharks is not the fault of the sport fishermen, but at this point the aggregate impact of the top 10 US tournaments is unsustainable.

Why are Makos so hard to find? Because there aren't many left! So why try to catch even one? if you care for the oceans then you help even on a small scale , period.

How can you defend the glorification of killing sharks and call yourself a lover of the ocean?

PS: Sorry since you claim Tigers are not caught in these tournaments, why did two 400+lb Tigers get hauled in at Montauk? Why did this Tiger get hauled in at Oaks Bluff?
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Debating with someone like you is of no use - it is this mentality that is the actual problem.
 
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With all due respect - these are ignorant statements. I work with researchers and scientists and the mortality rate is not documented, it is assumed as all of your observations and statements are. The mortality rate is NOT under 10%. And it is NOT documented. Any worthwhile shark researcher will confirm that. But it is definitely higher than what most people think.
It is the assumed mortality rate among recreationally tagged sharks as published in the quarterly tagging report I receive from the NMFS.
Why are Makos so hard to find? Because there aren't many left! So why try to catch even one? if you care for the oceans then you help even on a small scale , period.
The are being seen in ever increasing numbers of late as commercial practices are being adjusted.
How can you defend the glorification of killing sharks and call yourself a lover of the ocean?
How can you say I am not?
PS: Sorry since you claim Tigers are not caught in these tournaments, why did two 400+lb Tigers get hauled in at Montauk? Why did this Tiger get hauled in at Oaks Bluff?
please reread your statement and then mine. The reference was for the woodleft tournament. Am I not correct?
Debating with someone like you is of no use - it is this mentality that is the actual problem.
Sorry you feel that way. I am a well educated reasonable person. Open to the suggestions of others. Just because I don't agree with you does not make me a bad person.
By my estimations my spending on my sport donates in excess of $2,500 per year through the taxes levied for marine research and conservation (not counting the purchase of my boat). Isn't that worth something?
Sorry, it was not my desire to start any sort of argument. I thought I was offering another side to the story.
I'm willing to bet the answer lies somewhere in the middle & not at either end.
 
"I'm willing to bet the answer lies somewhere in the middle & not at either end"

I bet you're right. Thanks for having a level heard about this. I'm sure you're a good person and you sound like you do have a general love for the ocean. I didn't mean to get into the heat of argument either. As you can tell I'm very passionate about creating awareness among the general public. I feel it's important that they know that sharks need to be protected before it's too late. The general public hates sharks (more so out of fear created by the media than anything else)
 
It happens to the best of us and I agree... Sharks, tuna, swordfish, tautog and mostly everything out there is in trouble and something needs to be done.
 
I do not mean to start the argument up again but one thing....Skipper, how can you say that tournaments are not to be considered a problem. It is obvious that commercial long lining is doing worst things to sharks that tournaments. My thing is this.... who cares? They're still killing sharks. No matter if it's even one shark, it's still one less shark. I sent emails to Quiznos and Disney advising them of my intentions to Boycott them.
 
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