Shark kills Diver

[ronscuba]

Good points seaducer.

However, while they might not be man eating sharks, they are bigger and more powerful than reef sharks, which means an accidental or exploratory bite will be much more serious than one from a reef shark.

Then there is the question whether or not accidental/exploratory bites are more likely to happen with this operator or these types of sharks.

 

[seaducer]

It doesn't take much to stir up sharks, even those greys and blacktips seen in the Bahamas. I've been bumped and stalked repeatedly by those things after spearing one little ol' fish. It's lucky I still have all my parts. I don't remember it being that way decades ago, not at all. Either their food supply is short or they are becoming trained attack dogs thanks to the rubes who are paying the big bucks for a cheap thrill.

Actually, spearfishermen have been harassed and attacked by sharks since spearfishing began. It certainly is not a new phenomena. Just ask Rodney Fox. Or pick up any spearfishing book from any era to see the warnings.

As for the comment on food supply, yes, commercial fishing is making it harder to find huge shoals of fish, but then again, there are less sharks as well...

 

[seaducer]

Good points seaducer.

However, while they might not be man eating sharks, they are bigger and more powerful than reef sharks, which means an accidental or exploratory bite will be much more serious than one from a reef shark.

Then there is the question whether or not accidental/exploratory bites are more likely to happen with this operator or these types of sharks.

No doubt if one of the bigger of these species bites, things go South in a big way real quick. I would disagree however that a reef shark would not be just as bad. A 10 foot reef shark can do just as much damage as a 10 foot bull or tiger.

I have no data backing this up, but I would assume that tigers are more prone to exploratory bites than almost any other species, just based on stomach contents. Once the idea that something might be edible crosses their minds, they are IME a little more outgoing than other species. Bulls and whites would be right there with them. Other less heavily bodied sharks tend to be more stand-offish.

But I do believe if you behave a certain way in their presence you can either increase or decrease your chances of being bitten. I had an encounter with a big female tiger while surfing once. I slipped off the board and swam at her, actually kind of chased her away. The other surfers thought I was was nuts, I just wanted her to see what I was, or more correct, what I was not. ( I won't say I wasn't scared out of my mind though, lol).

Just as an aside, the aquarium I volunteer at had a tiger shark years ago. The first couple of days divers had to station themselves at the corners, around the clock, to keep her from swimming into the wall. You literally had to "catch" her by the head and forcibly turn her down the line, or she would ram headfrst into the corner.

Nobody got bitten. She was eventually released since she didn't adapt to captivity. She was about 10 feet long I think.

 

[sharkbaitbilly]

How about a letter written in 2007 from Neal Watson, president of the Bahamas Diving Association, which asked all dive operations to cease and desist conducting open-water non-cage shark diving experiences. The letter states, "We have become aware that some dive operators have chosen to disregard standard safe-diving practices as it relates to interactions with Tiger Sharks and other potentially dangerous species of Sharks".

You can read more about it (including the letter) here:
UnderwaterTimes | 'Cowboy' Shark Dive Operator Warned Over Safety Before Fatal Attack; 'Accident Waiting To Happen'
with more info here:
Shark encounters criticized after diver dies in attack -- South Florida Sun-Sentinel.com

If you don't believe the media, contact Mr. Watson or the Bahamas Diving Association directly:

Neal@NealWatson.com
800-327-8150

Bahamas Diving Association, US Chapter
P.O. Box 21707
Fort Lauderdale , FL 33335
Phone: 954-236-9292
Fax: 954-236-9282
Toll-Free: 1-800-866-DIVE
bda@clinegroup.net


The fact remains that this dive operator had to leave Florida because of his practices, that the Bahamas Diving Association (which represents most dive operations in that country) asked him to stop his unsafe practices, and that the Bahamian government is investigating the dive operator's responsibility in this incident.

There are smart, safe, and ecologically-friendly ways to interact with sharks on a dive; this operator has chosen to ignore those methods, despite repeated warnings from others. And if the operator isn't driven out of business by this tragedy, I hope the readers of this board learn to understand why it's important not to give these types of operations our business.

Florida banned chumming for sharks to help reduce the number of unprevoked shark attacks, due to the fact a number of large, dangerous sharks frequent the waters around florida. The two groups mainly affected by this decision are divers and fisherman. The government did not want to create a situation where sharks were drawn to shallow waters and beach areas where bathers and tourist would come into contact with them. We all know that sharks live in saltwater, and we go into the oceans knowing that it is possible a shark might be around. So a total ban on chumming was put into place. If you own a business that is mainly geared toward one thing, diving with sharks, and you are told you cant do it here but if you drive down the road you can do it, as the business owner, would you sell the business, change the type of diving you offer, or would you drive down the road continue running your business and continue to offer people the chance to get up close and personal with these sharks. As much as I think it is very dangerous chumming waters to attract large,dangerous sharks and dive with out a cage, their are alot of people looking for the thrill and the rush of diving in these situation. For those who have taken that risk, and gone on one of these types of dives, I bet you would be hard pressed to find someone that would say it sucked, or it was boring. I bet they would all say it was a risk worth taking and they would probably rank the dive amongst one of the best. How many bungee jumpers die in a year, nobody is callin for a bungee jumping ban.If you are not the type of person willing to take that risk then dont go on one of these dives. Only the divers on these trips are taking a risk, they know that before even getting on the boat. For all those people who would would never take this risk, they have nothing to worry about, they are not taking that risk, but they shouldnt sit back and deter others from wanting that thrill. I went to Daytona speedway years ago. I personally dont have "the need for speed". Since I was in daytona, I thought I would do the "Richard Petty Experience", for those who dont know, they have race cars set up with passanger seats, you are strapped into the race car wearing a fire suit, gloves, boots, neck guard, helmet, etc. You are then taken out on the track for 3 laps around daytona speedway at over 150 mph. Before getting into the car I thought, hmmm $110 to sit in a car for 3 laps, whats the big deal. What if the driver wrecks the car with me in it. But I still went through with it. That was the risk I took getting into the car. After my 3 laps were done, I wanted to hand over my credit card because it was such a rush. And on top of that, If I find myself in daytona again, I would do it again.If the driver did accidentally crash, I wouldnt be conducting an interview from my hospital bed calling for an all out ban on this type of business. I knew the risks, I would take responsibility for my own actions

 

[peterbj7]

Only the divers on these trips are taking a risk

Sadly that's not true. The sharks' behaviour is modified and they are more likely to seek food from humans in one way or another (!), and to become aggressive when they see humans but no food is forthcoming. Sharks don't recognise geographical or human boundaries and travel large distances, so it's invalid to say that only the sharks in a "shark feeding area" will behave like that. Shark chumming and feeding makes the ocean more dangerous for everyone.

 

[dhaas]

Sadly, most who post here on sharks and claim altering behavior have no data to back it up.

I've read Dr. Burgesses files for over 20 years, all good data, and FLA is still #1 in shark "attacks" in the world due to sheer number of people in FLA especially at beaches. So the ban they lulled the public into thinking would make it safer did a good PR job, but didn't and won't change 250 million years of evolution and a great design to seek out food whether it be scent, splashing, blood and guts dumped into the ocean at all the fishing piers in FLA right next to swimmers (continuing to this day.)

Peter, you may have 2000 dives in San Pedro and your opinion is just that, one opinion. No statistical proof of shark dive sites drawing and keeping sharks at one spot increasing any risk of encounters nor actual attacks exists. If you have it, please refer us to it.....

The real danger in diving is the actual diver's ability causing much more deaths. But because sharks are such an ingrained fear (perpetuated by divers themselves many times over!) This remains more of a real concern than good basic skills and some form of fitness to actually go dive safely. As I've stated before, read the accident reports of DAN and numerous other places.....I'm safer diving alone with sharks at Tiger Beach than with some bozo the dive boat's NEW 200 dive wonderboy instructor or divemaster may assign to me. Especially if I have to try and save my new "insta-buddy".

Finally, the exact type of feeding which has been criticized and not differentiated from chum, aka, NOT BLOOD takes place every day at Grand Bahama and Nassau plus a few other Bahamas locations. Roughly calculated at over 100,00 dives in 25+ years. Anyone claiming a Caribbean Reef shark or Blacktip or whatever species is somehow less of a shark has never seen these up to 9' bullets move for actual fish pieces at one of these "open encounters, - no protection" dives. They even have a "pack dog" mentality yet all those operators have been Mum in commenting. Partly because of inflammatory discussions, and partly because it apparently is popular and statistically can be done safely!

Sharks aren't dumb and can tell 99% of the time what is food and what isn't......They're everywhere in all oceans, and if they wanted us it would be the McDonalds of the sea everywhere people swim, surf, splash, snorkel, scuba dive, etc.

Shark attacks in shallow murky water on bathers, surfers, fisherman, etc. will continue in FLA and beyond the USA borders. You can't ensure safety of a wild place as big as the ocean and it is simply unrealistic to state such and encourage such thinking.

I wish this whole thread would die.......Or be discussed intelligently with facts.

dhaas

 

[2Tours N Iraq`]

Sadly that's not true. The sharks' behaviour is modified and they are more likely to seek food from humans in one way or another (!), and to become aggressive when they see humans but no food is forthcoming. Sharks don't recognise geographical or human boundaries and travel large distances, so it's invalid to say that only the sharks in a "shark feeding area" will behave like that. Shark chumming and feeding makes the ocean more dangerous for everyone.

Please do not take this as the wrong way as I am merely trying to act as a conduit for discussion. I'm curious to know if there is any scientific evidence to support your statement? Does anyone know of any scientific evidence to dispute this statement?

 

[scubadale]

The real danger in diving is the actual diver's ability causing much more deaths.

Surely you are not suggesting Mr. Groh's diving abilities caused his death

Finally, the exact type of feeding which has been criticized and not differentiated from chum, aka, NOT BLOOD takes place every day at Grand Bahama and Nassau plus a few other Bahamas locations. Roughly calculated at over 100,00 dives in 25+ years. Anyone claiming a Caribbean Reef shark or Blacktip or whatever species is somehow less of a shark has never seen these up to 9' bullets move for actual fish pieces at one of these "open encounters, - no protection" dives. They even have a "pack dog" mentality yet all those operators have been Mum in commenting. Partly because of inflammatory discussions, and partly because it apparently is popular and statistically can be done safely!


Shark attacks in shallow murky water on bathers, surfers, fishermane, etc. will continue in FLA and beyond the USA borders. You can't ensure safety of a wild place as big as the ocean and it is simply unrealistic to state such and encourage such thinking.

In one statement you state that it can statistically be done safely in the other you state that it is unrealistic to state such. Could you clarify?

I wish this whole thread would die.......Or be discussed intelligently with facts.

The dive industry has a whole is woefully inadequate in its abilities to quantify and obtain "facts". Others have stated their experience with sharks gathering around a boat that stops at a "feeding site" and then leaving when no food was presented. Is this fact or merely someone's opinion?

dhaas

MY OPINION is that shark diving (chumming, feeding, or simply diving where they are known to gather) has an increased risk of injury from a shark. It is also my opinion that the diver is responsible for their decision to dive or not to dive in those conditions.

 

[dhaas]

scubadale,

Absolutely not inferred was the accident of Mr. Groh was related to his abilities. Not sure reading my post how you could assume that, but I certainly didn't imply that.

The main statistic is how many divers have actually done shark dives and until this unfortunate incident not been "attacked". If shark feeds by definition incite, encourage or otherwise can be claimed to cause such risk, where are the deaths and bites? The mere fact divers go into the oceans of the world every day and we don't read about frequent attacks should be proof the risk as debated is grossly overstated if not downright false.

I'm sure boat engines at popular shark dive sites draw sharks in to investigate. Not just dive boats mind you, but many many more fishing boats that hook fish in waters and said fish send out distress signals to any shark for miles around. This is their instincts as I stated honed over millions of years. I, and I'm sure anyone who has done a shark dive at any site in the Bahamas has witnessed this. If not presented with bait however it it packaged, they simply swim around for awhile and move on.....

But again, any shark, even Nurse sharks swimming toward divers is termed a threat! If this were true every shark encounter anywhere would be met with a bite.....And again, this just doesn't happen on any regular basis.

My only point in drawing a parallel to safe divers and that risk was to try and point out how you can and DO have more to worry about regarding our own skills and those you may or may not choose to dive with. Nothing more was intended.

dhaas

 

[danclem]

Hi Scubadale:

I have made a fair number of shark dives in places like the Galapagos, Polynesia, Marquesas, Bahamas, and Guadalupe, and have not seen the "dog pack" behavior you describe. Even on baited dives the sharks I have seen are remarkably controlled: they are interested in the bait, not munching on divers who may be photographing or observing them. They will frequently pass very close and sometimes bump, but I have not seen any aggression towards divers. It may happen, but I have not witnessed this behavior an any of my dives.

As Dhaas notes above, there are literally thousands of divers who take part in shark dives every year around the world, and the attacks (bites/dismemberment/deaths) are simply not there. People are sometimes in the wrong place at the wrong time, and this appears to be what happened to Mr Groh. It is a tragedy, but so is stepping of a curb and being killed by a car, which is a statistically much greater possibility.

I believe this was posted on an earlier thread, but:

Odds of being a victim of a shark attack are 1 in 8 million.
Odds of dying from a fall down the stairs are 1 in 200,000.
Odds of dying from a wasp, bee or hornet sting are 1 in 5.9 million.
Odds of dying from a lightning strike are 1 in 4.3 million.
Odds of drowning in bathtub are 1 in 800,000.
Odds of dying from an adverse reaction to antibiotics 1 in 7 million
Odds of being killed in a motor vehicle accident 1 in 6,000.

Regards,

Dan