Shark bites liveaboard guest
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Are *you* really worried that adult individuals are incapable of weighing their own risks, and determining their own comfort factor, without your condescending input/guidance?
As I mentioned in various replies already, I don't advocate, nor do I patronize, the chummed shark dives. I *do* however enjoy diving alongside sharks. People have died in this setting as well. No chum. No provocation. It is a risk *I* weigh based on statistics, though imperfect, and personal experience, though limited.
I don't know JASA, so I can't make apologies for them, nor condemnations of them.
What is *your* personal experience with them, that gives you the right to brand them as "shady?"
A friend of mine lives down there and she told me that the man actually died from a breathe hold ascent (air embolism/lung over expansion.) One of the crew members on the boat tried to catch up with the guy and slow down his ascent and he suffered from DCS. Pretty sad considering it sounds like Jim Abernathy is now being criminally investigated by Miami-Dade authorities and Bahamian authorities as well. It sounds to me like an unfortunate accident getting way too much media attention. This article is the worst I've found:
Shark-dive boat operator in a tight spot - 02/27/2008 - MiamiHerald.com
*EDIT*
When I was doing my DM training in WPB Florida we did our entire DM internship on Abernathy's boat, "Deep Obsession." We weren't shark diving but just reef diving in and around WPB. During our first day one of the DM candidates in my group fell getting ready to giant stride in 4' seas and broke her ribs and punctured a lung. The level of care given to her to get her out of the water and out to a hospital was tremendous. Both JASA's staff as well as the Coast Guard and local authorities did a tremendous job and JASA certainly didn't wait or postpone to get the care the woman needed to her. I was personally impressed.
During my last day of training when I was doing my u/w photography instructor course we spotted a 10'+ Hammerhead on Midway reef. We weren't feeding or chumming for sharks the big fella was just there. It was a great expierence and since then I have been in the water with sharks quite a bit both in large public aquariums and in the wild.
Shark-dive boat operator in a tight spot - 02/27/2008 - MiamiHerald.com
*EDIT*
When I was doing my DM training in WPB Florida we did our entire DM internship on Abernathy's boat, "Deep Obsession." We weren't shark diving but just reef diving in and around WPB. During our first day one of the DM candidates in my group fell getting ready to giant stride in 4' seas and broke her ribs and punctured a lung. The level of care given to her to get her out of the water and out to a hospital was tremendous. Both JASA's staff as well as the Coast Guard and local authorities did a tremendous job and JASA certainly didn't wait or postpone to get the care the woman needed to her. I was personally impressed.
During my last day of training when I was doing my u/w photography instructor course we spotted a 10'+ Hammerhead on Midway reef. We weren't feeding or chumming for sharks the big fella was just there. It was a great expierence and since then I have been in the water with sharks quite a bit both in large public aquariums and in the wild.
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The over-the-top reaction that we are seeing after this tragedy is similiar to the reaction we saw on this board after 3 divers lost their lives penetrating the Speigel Grove last year. If you go back and find those discussions you will find postings from people that, like deco, wanted to close the wreck to all diving and have the operator that took those divers to the wreck shutdown. Fortunately, reason prevailed and we can still dive on the Speigel Grove and the charter operator is still in business. Now I can only hope for the same result is this case as well.
I haven't read all of this very long thread, but I'd like to say a couple of things.
1) Feeding sharks is an intrinsically dangerous thing to do, and changes their behaviour long-term. I've no desire to be in the water when it's being chummed for sharks, and no great desire to go anywhere where there is a history of shark feeding. The risk of being bitten goes up a lot, permanently. I think anyone who deliberately goes on a shark feeding dive is foolish. And I'm not a diving wimp.
2) Speculation about incidents is inevitable, and fueled by people in the know refusing to issue facts. I have known several people who died diving, and in every case too little information was released to enable anyone to understand what happened. So they speculated, and me along with them. In one of those cases I suspected some culpability somewhere, and although I never found whether that was true the few facts that have emerged subsequently have all pointed in that direction. Fury and contrived outrage by people close to the incident only tend to confirm that they're hiding something.
So I have no concerns over people speculating, even when it's seen as hurtful to people close to the victim. I just wish it wasn't necessary. In another sport I participate in, skydiving, there is usually a formal and thorough public way of releasing sufficient facts about the incident to satisfy a reasonable fellow jumper. The purpose being of course to enable people to understand what went wrong and amend their own future behaviour accordingly. A healthy approach.
1) Feeding sharks is an intrinsically dangerous thing to do, and changes their behaviour long-term. I've no desire to be in the water when it's being chummed for sharks, and no great desire to go anywhere where there is a history of shark feeding. The risk of being bitten goes up a lot, permanently. I think anyone who deliberately goes on a shark feeding dive is foolish. And I'm not a diving wimp.
2) Speculation about incidents is inevitable, and fueled by people in the know refusing to issue facts. I have known several people who died diving, and in every case too little information was released to enable anyone to understand what happened. So they speculated, and me along with them. In one of those cases I suspected some culpability somewhere, and although I never found whether that was true the few facts that have emerged subsequently have all pointed in that direction. Fury and contrived outrage by people close to the incident only tend to confirm that they're hiding something.
So I have no concerns over people speculating, even when it's seen as hurtful to people close to the victim. I just wish it wasn't necessary. In another sport I participate in, skydiving, there is usually a formal and thorough public way of releasing sufficient facts about the incident to satisfy a reasonable fellow jumper. The purpose being of course to enable people to understand what went wrong and amend their own future behaviour accordingly. A healthy approach.
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the bull run dive is still offered, just did it in december.
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David:
Thanks for the comment regarding my photography (though I'm definitely a rank amateur). Yes, I've been to Tiger Beach and multiple other shark sites with Jim Abernethy and many other operators through the years. And, yes, my wife and I have been shark diving with both of our children. In fact, one of the tiger shark "regulars" at Tiger Beach is named (by Jim) for our daughter Kimberly. Of note, our daughter is now a marine biology major in college studying sharks. Our son, also an avid diver, is already a strong proponent of shark conservation, due in large part to his time spent learning about sharks from people like Jim Abernethy and the marine biology experts that frequent his establishment.
I've been following all of these posts since the events broke Sunday (while I was at Jim's shop in West Palm). It is obvious that there are different "camps" on this subject and everyone is welcome to their opinion. It is nice, however, when those opinions are based on some level of knowledge and/or experience with the subject. Personally, I think skydiving is "crazy" -- but that is based entirely on my "gut". I know almost nothing about the subject and have never done it. Given that, I would never try to tell an avid skydiver that they were "crazy" or "stupid" and I definitely would not start posting on a skydiving forum that skydiving is so dangerous that it should be banned.
Shark diving is clearly not for everyone and it clearly carries with it additional risks compared to your average Caribbean reef dive. As has been mentioned, Jim's operation caters to experienced divers, marine biologists, photographers, and filmmakers who want to get close to these magnificent animals. Like many of those who have posted above, I have been diving all around the world and I can truly say that Jim's operation is truly outstanding. He is extemely safety conscious and gives very thorough briefings throughout the trips as to the dangers involved. There are very strict rules involving everything from behavior, how to enter and exit the water, and what you can and cannot wear -- all in an attempt to make this activity as safe as humanly possible. All of those onboard are perfectly aware of what they are getting into and many go back again and again because it such an outstanding operation.
If you do not want to dive with sharks or only want to dive with them from cages, I have no problem with that. Just please don't tell those of us who enjoy these animals and are knowlegeable of and willing to accept the inherent risks involved that we can't continue this activity -- especially when your opinion is based on one extremely tragic and unfortunate death despite many many years of shark diving around the world.
As opposed to arguing with each other on this subject, please for at least a moment let's all say a prayer for the victim, his family, Jim Abernethy, and his crew. It's been a terrible week for all involved.
Doug
Thanks for the comment regarding my photography (though I'm definitely a rank amateur). Yes, I've been to Tiger Beach and multiple other shark sites with Jim Abernethy and many other operators through the years. And, yes, my wife and I have been shark diving with both of our children. In fact, one of the tiger shark "regulars" at Tiger Beach is named (by Jim) for our daughter Kimberly. Of note, our daughter is now a marine biology major in college studying sharks. Our son, also an avid diver, is already a strong proponent of shark conservation, due in large part to his time spent learning about sharks from people like Jim Abernethy and the marine biology experts that frequent his establishment.
I've been following all of these posts since the events broke Sunday (while I was at Jim's shop in West Palm). It is obvious that there are different "camps" on this subject and everyone is welcome to their opinion. It is nice, however, when those opinions are based on some level of knowledge and/or experience with the subject. Personally, I think skydiving is "crazy" -- but that is based entirely on my "gut". I know almost nothing about the subject and have never done it. Given that, I would never try to tell an avid skydiver that they were "crazy" or "stupid" and I definitely would not start posting on a skydiving forum that skydiving is so dangerous that it should be banned.
Shark diving is clearly not for everyone and it clearly carries with it additional risks compared to your average Caribbean reef dive. As has been mentioned, Jim's operation caters to experienced divers, marine biologists, photographers, and filmmakers who want to get close to these magnificent animals. Like many of those who have posted above, I have been diving all around the world and I can truly say that Jim's operation is truly outstanding. He is extemely safety conscious and gives very thorough briefings throughout the trips as to the dangers involved. There are very strict rules involving everything from behavior, how to enter and exit the water, and what you can and cannot wear -- all in an attempt to make this activity as safe as humanly possible. All of those onboard are perfectly aware of what they are getting into and many go back again and again because it such an outstanding operation.
If you do not want to dive with sharks or only want to dive with them from cages, I have no problem with that. Just please don't tell those of us who enjoy these animals and are knowlegeable of and willing to accept the inherent risks involved that we can't continue this activity -- especially when your opinion is based on one extremely tragic and unfortunate death despite many many years of shark diving around the world.
As opposed to arguing with each other on this subject, please for at least a moment let's all say a prayer for the victim, his family, Jim Abernethy, and his crew. It's been a terrible week for all involved.
Doug
This is my first post on a forum like this. I have never done this before, so here goes.
I have done quite a bit of shark diving, both ways, chumming and au natural. The problem is we have decimated the shark populations so bad that to guarantee to see sharks, you either have to go to Cocos, Galopagos....or chum.
There is always in inherent danger in swimming with sharks with or without bait in the water, but my experience has been that if you are at depth with them, they are less likely to bother you, or even acknowledge you. They are scared of our bubbles!
Like an other "extreme" sport, there is an inherent danger. You can never guarantee what a wild predator is going to do. However, you also cannot guarantee that your parachute is going to open or the bungie cord is not going to break. Does that mean they should ban all these sports????? By diving with sharks, with or without bait, you are taking a risk, and you know this risk when you get in the water. The only way to minimize the risk is to know the animal you are encountering. Educate yourself as much as you can before doing anything with risks. Acccidents happen. No one knows what really happened, and they probably never will, but to blame the shark or to ban free diving with sharks is just wrong. We should be able to be free to decide how we take our risks, either diving with sharks, parachuting, or even driving the freeways to work................
I have done quite a bit of shark diving, both ways, chumming and au natural. The problem is we have decimated the shark populations so bad that to guarantee to see sharks, you either have to go to Cocos, Galopagos....or chum.
There is always in inherent danger in swimming with sharks with or without bait in the water, but my experience has been that if you are at depth with them, they are less likely to bother you, or even acknowledge you. They are scared of our bubbles!
Like an other "extreme" sport, there is an inherent danger. You can never guarantee what a wild predator is going to do. However, you also cannot guarantee that your parachute is going to open or the bungie cord is not going to break. Does that mean they should ban all these sports????? By diving with sharks, with or without bait, you are taking a risk, and you know this risk when you get in the water. The only way to minimize the risk is to know the animal you are encountering. Educate yourself as much as you can before doing anything with risks. Acccidents happen. No one knows what really happened, and they probably never will, but to blame the shark or to ban free diving with sharks is just wrong. We should be able to be free to decide how we take our risks, either diving with sharks, parachuting, or even driving the freeways to work................
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