Shark attack, Egypt, Brothers islands

[scubaozy]

Oh wow, I didn't expect such strange response. I am not sure I understand what kind of dangerous and false information I am giving out. I pointed out that alertness level of the divers should be increased to baited shark dive level when doing dives around owt in the red sea, I fail to see how this makes it more dangerous. I am not sure what is false?
I have a feeling that there is a bit of "parallel swimming" going on and I do not like to be a part of this. But I would still like to respond on some of the points.

• the article states that you apply the rules and "hopefully" it will be ok. This sounds to me more like Do you (I) feel lucky?
• not sure why you have not cited the previous paragraph "The close encounters, that have made oceanic whitetips so popular in recent years, are not solely due to their natural inquisitiveness, though. Quite contrarily, the illegal practice of feeding and baiting is very likely to have caused these sharks to become accustomed to people in the water, and reduce their in-built “flight distance” to basically zero." To me, this sounds like the author already acknowledged the fact that owt in the region aren't behaving "normal" already in 2009 ( probably be after the death of the French snorkeler in same year).

Btw, off course I know who Elke Bojanowski is (otherwise I would not quote her), I was working as dive guide in Safaga between 2003-5 and she has been working at DH (I do not want to give full company name) around the same time frame. Unfortunately, we never met but she already had an amazing reputation back then among the guests and other guides.
I personally am an avid shark diver and think, it could have been me instead of the other diver. I am not able to say, oh well it is statistics, because when it happens to you, it is quite personal. You cannot simply state that follow the protocol and maybe it will be ok, or blame it on the diver(s).
Shark: is not guilty as it does what it does (or doesn't)
Diver: it looked to me that the victim was communicating with his buddy hence was distracted and shifted his attention to his buddy. This is a very normal diving situation even while diving with the sharks. He could have been more attentive to the shark. Otherwise he fulfilled most of the "protocol".
Diver2: his diving skills are not entirely suitable for the dive, has escalated the situation unintentionally
Operator: is guilty of getting the unsuitable diver into the water and not attending him properly thereafter
Legislator/Authority: is guilty of not preventing the feeding since years which changed the behavior of the owt in the region

As you see that there can be actions taken for each party involved in the incident, regardless the level of guilt. There is tons of room to do it better and safer. Despite a lot close calls, this is the first incident where a diver was attacked and it is a good moment to do things differently. Even some legal documentation read and signed by divers might improve the behavior of the divers a little (remember the visa form you sign for some countries where you are reminded that there is death penalty for drug trafficking at your destination and how nervous that makes you despite you have nothing to worry?)
Have a lot of sympathy to both divers and hoping both of them will recover timely from their trauma. As shark does what a shark does, people do what people do -> small mistakes and I find legislators and operators role more important in this.

 

[InTheDrink]

Oh wow, I didn't expect such strange response. I am not sure I understand what kind of dangerous and false information I am giving out. I pointed out that alertness level of the divers should be increased to baited shark dive level when doing dives around owt in the red sea, I fail to see how this makes it more dangerous. I am not sure what is false?
I have a feeling that there is a bit of "parallel swimming" going on and I do not like to be a part of this. But I would still like to respond on some of the points.

• the article states that you apply the rules and "hopefully" it will be ok. This sounds to me more like Do you (I) feel lucky?
• not sure why you have not cited the previous paragraph "The close encounters, that have made oceanic whitetips so popular in recent years, are not solely due to their natural inquisitiveness, though. Quite contrarily, the illegal practice of feeding and baiting is very likely to have caused these sharks to become accustomed to people in the water, and reduce their in-built “flight distance” to basically zero." To me, this sounds like the author already acknowledged the fact that owt in the region aren't behaving "normal" already in 2009 ( probably be after the death of the French snorkeler in same year).

Btw, off course I know who Elke Bojanowski is (otherwise I would not quote her), I was working as dive guide in Safaga between 2003-5 and she has been working at DH (I do not want to give full company name) around the same time frame. Unfortunately, we never met but she already had an amazing reputation back then among the guests and other guides.
I personally am an avid shark diver and think, it could have been me instead of the other diver. I am not able to say, oh well it is statistics, because when it happens to you, it is quite personal. You cannot simply state that follow the protocol and maybe it will be ok, or blame it on the diver(s).
Shark: is not guilty as it does what it does (or doesn't)
Diver: it looked to me that the victim was communicating with his buddy hence was distracted and shifted his attention to his buddy. This is a very normal diving situation even while diving with the sharks. He could have been more attentive to the shark. Otherwise he fulfilled most of the "protocol".
Diver2: his diving skills are not entirely suitable for the dive, has escalated the situation unintentionally
Operator: is guilty of getting the unsuitable diver into the water and not attending him properly thereafter
Legislator/Authority: is guilty of not preventing the feeding since years which changed the behavior of the owt in the region

As you see that there can be actions taken for each party involved in the incident, regardless the level of guilt. There is tons of room to do it better and safer. Despite a lot close calls, this is the first incident where a diver was attacked and it is a good moment to do things differently. Even some legal documentation read and signed by divers might improve the behavior of the divers a little (remember the visa form you sign for some countries where you are reminded that there is death penalty for drug trafficking at your destination and how nervous that makes you despite you have nothing to worry?)
Have a lot of sympathy to both divers and hoping both of them will recover timely from their trauma. As shark does what a shark does, people do what people do -> small mistakes and I find legislators and operators role more important in this.

My apologies. This was not meant to be an attack on you at all.

I’m just saying that diving with OWTs is generally safe. That doesn’t mean there is no hazard.

I hope boats up their game. Particularly with waste management and advising divers to recognise changes in behaviour.

I still don’t think that showing a shark attack before going diving with sharks is a good idea.

Show people how to behave, tell them defensive measures if required and that’s the best. In both attacks this year neither diver was making eye contact with the shark.

If you jump down on them from the boat or zodiac they are a lot more likely to skidaddle than you.

Getting back into the zodiac is more hazardous.

But you need to think stats. Thousands of dives.

And you need to think: why now? My *belief* is that it is feeding or fishing from some boats + potentially lower diver experience.

The first I am sure will change and I would be extremely surprised to see any further mishaps.

 

[John Bantin]

As I said before, vessels have been unintentionally baiting the sea lanes in the Red Sea for the last 200 (two hundred) years. OWTs are conditioned to follow the noise of vessels.

 

[Christian]

I have not seen any change in OWT behavior in the Red Sea over the last 20 years. Been the same. They are open ocean predators and to be inquisitive is their natural behaviour. Food/bait in the water makes a big difference in their boldness.

 

[HalcyonDaze]

I have not seen any change in OWT behavior in the Red Sea over the last 20 years. Been the same. They are open ocean predators and to be inquisitive is their natural behaviour. Food/bait in the water makes a big difference in their boldness.

My question is what level of food/bait in the water makes the difference. I can see if a group of divers passed through a fresh chum slick; I'm skeptical that a shark might be on edge because a boat threw it a chicken several miles away last week. A former poster on these boards once tried to argue that a fatal attack last year in Cocos *had* to be because of baiting or spearfishing because tiger sharks *never* attack divers without such stimuli ... which is complete BS. A flailing diver is a much more immediate stimulus for a predator to inspect than a faint trace of blood or bait in the water, or something that fell off a boat in the general area that week.

In regards to the clip in the original post, what convinces me is that until the sidemount diver swims obliviously right into the path of the agitated shark, it's focusing on one diver. Something about him specifically has the shark's attention, and unless he's got a dead fish in his pocket it's not bait.

 

[Christian]

My question is what level of food/bait in the water makes the difference. I can see if a group of divers passed through a fresh chum slick; I'm skeptical that a shark might be on edge because a boat threw it a chicken several miles away last week. A former poster on these boards once tried to argue that a fatal attack last year in Cocos *had* to be because of baiting or spearfishing because tiger sharks *never* attack divers without such stimuli ... which is complete BS. A flailing diver is a much more immediate stimulus for a predator to inspect than a faint trace of blood or bait in the water, or something that fell off a boat in the general area that week.

In regards to the clip in the original post, what convinces me is that until the sidemount diver swims obliviously right into the path of the agitated shark, it's focusing on one diver. Something about him specifically has the shark's attention, and unless he's got a dead fish in his pocket it's not bait.

I have noot seen anyone suggesting that the divers carry bait, but the shark is clearly agitated. I also believe that about 100% who are on here and have some experience with OWT agree that what we can see, is that diver behavior plays a significant role in the sad outcome. Perhaps that is all that there’s to it?
But it’s very possible that someone (crew on a boat) ”played” the shark beforehand too. A piece of chicken or fish on a string. Or just food scraps thrown over board. A very small amount makes a difference. You don’t need much experience to immediately tell the difference. Can’t say exactly how long it takes for a ”turned on” OWT to calm down, but it’s not several hours ... If it’s the case here, as some reports suggests, my guess is it happened just before or even during the dive.
Baiting sharks is strictly forbidden in Egypt. But it happens. Every now and then someone is caught and punished. My feeling is that it was more common 15-20 years ago. I remember one big female silvertip that was regularly baited and fed and became ”resident” on a popular reef. And very comfortable there. Once she chased a new DM up on the reef, became a problem. Finally authorities shoot it... some 25 years ago.

 

[scubaozy]

I think there is a distinction between bait and scraps of food floating around. Scraps of food will induce very aggressive behavior or frenzy, where as bait will keep them curious and interested. In the case of owt, this is not needed because they are already interested in the activity around the dive boats and divers. They are not at shy or cautious at all compare to a bull shark or tiger. In other parts of the world, I have seen operators taking out piece of fish occasionally to keep the interest going so, what I observed is the the state change is matter of minutes. In Bahamas, owt are baited by chum because otherwise they would not be there at all, which is already done by our dive boats in the Red Sea as John Bantin stated.
As expressed earlier, dives with owt should be handled as a baited dives. Current practice will eventually result in more accidents and in this case all parties will loose. Diver/human behavior(or reaction) is not predictable, so is the owt. So such attack will occur randomly. Only divers who can demonstrate solid diving skills, and preparation should have been in the water with owt that day.

 

[InTheDrink]

I think there is a distinction between bait and scraps of food floating around. Scraps of food will induce very aggressive behavior or frenzy, where as bait will keep them curious and interested. In the case of owt, this is not needed because they are already interested in the activity around the dive boats and divers. They are not at shy or cautious at all compare to a bull shark or tiger. In other parts of the world, I have seen operators taking out piece of fish occasionally to keep the interest going so, what I observed is the the state change is matter of minutes. In Bahamas, owt are baited by chum because otherwise they would not be there at all, which is already done by our dive boats in the Red Sea as John Bantin stated.
As expressed earlier, dives with owt should be handled as a baited dives. Current practice will eventually result in more accidents and in this case all parties will loose. Diver/human behavior(or reaction) is not predictable, so is the owt. So such attack will occur randomly. Only divers who can demonstrate solid diving skills, and preparation should have been in the water with owt that day.

Thanks for your post. Having been a guide there and having more that 10 OWTs in the water at once I can say with some degree of confidence that the last trip I did was different. The sharks were acting up. As Mr Bantin said yes they follow boats. But this time the sharks were extremely agitated. Not seen this before.

People without the appropriate experience should not be out there and boats need to get better (and they are already very good).

But you just can’t be in the water with these sharks and not know how to behave. Operators need to do a whole lot better

 

[drrich2]

Considering how easy it is to miss or misremember part of a dive briefing, do any operators have their guidance on in-water conduct around OWTs on their websites? You can't get full experience until you do something, and you may hear conflicting accounts. Might be well worthwhile to offer people the chance to read/review/memorize the guidance in advance, instead of just at a dive briefing where they're thinking about gearing up, what they might see, how the dive will go, etc...

Richard.

 

[Scott from LongIsland]

Considering how easy it is to miss or misremember part of a dive briefing, do any operators have their guidance on in-water conduct around OWTs on their websites? You can't get full experience until you do something, and you may hear conflicting accounts. Might be well worthwhile to offer people the chance to read/review/memorize the guidance in advance, instead of just at a dive briefing where they're thinking about gearing up, what they might see, how the dive will go, etc...

Richard.

Wow, are attentions spans that bad nowadays where you can't even pay attention to a dive briefing? jeezus. If you know it's important, pay attention. It's not that difficult. Should the DM hold your hand during the dive too?