Shadow Divers -- The Movie

[pilot fish]

I know what you mean about having mixed feelings with regard to WWII axis wrecks. I mean, the U-Boats off of NC were ordered there to kill noncombatants. I have a little trouble getting too concerned about their remains, though I don't believe in intentionally desecrating any human remains, either above or below the surface.

Shadow Divers spends a lot of time on this issue, and Richie Kohler's website does even more, presenting detailed information gleaned from his exhaustive research into the lives of the crew of the U-869. http://richiekohler.com/

It's an interesting issue. I guess the humanity that it takes to respect an enemy's war grave is part of the humanity that our troops were fighting for in that war. The same impulses that allow us to show our respect for the German war dead is part of what was missing in their ideology, an ideology that allowed them to treat outsiders as less than human, with the obvious consequences. In a way, to show their remains respect is a wonderful symbol of our victory over that ideology.

-G

Very nicely put.

Yes, that is how we feel and what made us different than them and the idealogy that they got fed, and fell for. That said though, how can I feel sorry for Dr Mengela and his death, or the other monsters that treated people like ants? There are war dead and then there are mass murderers. I'm not suggesting these sailors were mass murdereres but they did kill children, the wounded, women, and even shot survivers in the water. They were stalkers of the deep, like brainless sharks, that fed upon innocent vessels on the sea.

As divers we respect the ocean and what it gives us. We leave it as we find it. We do not destroy or distrub what we are privilidged to observe. As visitors in the sea we leave their bones and leave judgement to a higher power. I don't have to like or admire them though.

I would not like to see the movie treat them as noble warriors ,which will probably happen. They were not noble. Chatterton and Kohler are.

 

[Wijbrandus]

One thing to remember is that most of the troops fighting in the war on the German side did not subscribe to the Nazi ideology. They were simply people put in a situation where they had to defend their country, right or wrong.

I'm a former soldier in the US Army myself. I know all about having to follow orders you don't agree with. Respect them for their sacrifice for their country, not for the evil men they were forced to serve.

 

[netmage]

well... Ridley Scott is an awesome director

i can't actually think of anyone else i'd like to see do this project. i look forward to
it... few people could make this work, but Scott is one of them

Black Hawk Down was another of those can't put down books. I thought Scott's version on screen was fairly well done... I'm looking forward to this adaption as well.

 

[mossym]

One thing to remember is that most of the troops fighting in the war on the German side did not subscribe to the Nazi ideology. They were simply people put in a situation where they had to defend their country, right or wrong.

I'm a former soldier in the US Army myself. I know all about having to follow orders you don't agree with. Respect them for their sacrifice for their country, not for the evil men they were forced to serve.

thanks for stating that. to say that the sailors on those boats suscribed 100% to the nazi idealogy is a huge leap of faith, i'm sure some did..but to say thay all did is crazy...

i don't want this to get political...but we've seen multiple wars where one side was fighting on behalf of their leaders, and disagreed with them..you mean to tell me every soldier in vietnam agreed 100% they should be there...

I'll admit it now, i'm not american, and i'm not trying to thread on toes here, but i have a deep interest in WW2, and the german soldiers were following orders..i don't blame them, i blame the men who ordered them there...

 

[pilot fish]

thanks for stating that. to say that the sailors on those boats suscribed 100% to the nazi idealogy is a huge leap of faith, i'm sure some did..but to say thay all did is crazy...

i don't want this to get political...but we've seen multiple wars where one side was fighting on behalf of their leaders, and disagreed with them..you mean to tell me every soldier in vietnam agreed 100% they should be there...

I'll admit it now, i'm not american, and i'm not trying to thread on toes here, but i have a deep interest in WW2, and the german soldiers were following orders..i don't blame them, i blame the men who ordered them there...

I was a US Marine and followed orders ever day I was in. Some orders were dumb, I thought, so I moaned, but did them any way. I was never given an obviously inhuman order, like fire on a Hospital ship, or shoot wounded, nor would I have, if so ordered. That is the difference. To seek out innocent vessels on the high seas is not a noble war effort and I hope the movie, Shadow Divers, does not treat them, the German sailors of Hitler's boat, as heros, victims, or noble warriors.

 

[Wijbrandus]

One advantage we had as American servicemen was that you generally didn't get shot on the spot for not following orders.

Just a minor detail that has contributed to my continued existence.

 

[mossym]

I was a US Marine and followed orders ever day I was in. Some orders were dumb, I thought, so I moaned, but did them any way. I was never given an obviously inhuman order, like fire on a Hospital ship, or shoot wounded, nor would I have, if so ordered. That is the difference. To seek out innocent vessels on the high seas is not a noble war effort and I hope the movie, Shadow Divers, does not treat them, the German sailors of Hitler's boat, as heros, victims, or noble warriors.

point taken, and i for the same part would not like to see them made out to be monsters either...

what i took from the book was that they were son's, brothers, husbands, and fathers, and that the efforts of JC and RK was to reunite families, especially RK. I don't think it was ever to make them hero's. I hope we're both right, that the actions of 60 years ago are left out of it, and what is left is the quest to reunite families with those lost at sea..that alone is a good story, and one i'll go to see...

 

[pilot fish]

point taken, and i for the same part would not like to see them made out to be monsters either...

what i took from the book was that they were son's, brothers, husbands, and fathers, and that the efforts of JC and RK was to reunite families, especially RK. I don't think it was ever to make them hero's. I hope we're both right, that the actions of 60 years ago are left out of it, and what is left is the quest to reunite families with those lost at sea..that alone is a good story, and one i'll go to see...

Let the movie be about diving and Chatterton & Kohler's bravery. Let it be about solving the mystery and leave all the noble sailor of the lost U boat BS out of it.

Question, in the book I don't recall why the son, of the father and son dive duo, bolted to the surface? Do you recall what it said? As I recall, it just said he bolted for the sunshine and seaguls but never gave a reason why.

 

[Sean326]

Question, in the book I don't recall why the son, of the father and son dive duo, bolted to the surface? Do you recall what it said? As I recall, it just said he bolted for the sunshine and seaguls but never gave a reason why.

There is a book just on that subject called the last dive,
the author also publishes a magazine;

http://www.immersed.com/bookstore.php

 

[mossym]

the son got tangled in the wreck, the father went in to save him, they overstayed their limits, when they came out they turned the wrong way and missed their deco gas which they had left outside..and running out of air they went to the surface