Sexual Assault: Discussion

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aquaoren:
This is a matter for the criminal courts and not for a diving board.

So then is it your position that the original poster had no business posting here seeking support for her emotional trauma and feeling she should warn others?

Or is it your position that people hearing her story should not have been moved and posted to lend her their support?

Should victims ONLY tell local law enforcement and save telling others until criminal proceedings have legally determined guilt or innocence? Until then, shut up? If the courts rule insufficient evidence, should the victim then be permanently shushed from discussing the trauma of an incident in fear that people might negatively judge her assailant?

Just curious. After all, the board is discussing a relevant issue; not determining this whether this guy is guilty under penalty of law. I don't see any real reason to doubt the original poster given surrounding circumstances, and the guy's defense certainly doesn't seem to help his side, so I'm not sure what the original problem was with lending support to the poster or believing her. It's not like my opinion determines whether the guy ends up in jail. Were my opinion to determine that, I would either remove myself as biased or evaluate all of the evidence to see if sufficient to imprison him.
 
Ishie:
So then is it your position that the original poster had no business posting here seeking support for her emotional trauma and feeling she should warn others?

My position is that if she does so, and accuses a person by name in a public forum:

a) that person should have equal rights to defend himself and
b) the accusations should be open to questioning, rather than have all posts that question the valitidy of the acount deleted

There are 2 sides to every story, and only one side is being allowed to be repesented here.

James
 
Seems foolhardy to risk all that with a breast grope at 60 ft uw over a wetsuit?[/QUOTE]

It wasn't a breast grope at 60 feet. If you go back to my forum and read a little bit about it, you will understand a little better. You are obviously a very insensitive person...that is unfortunate. Sometimes it is better to reflect and think before writing your comments. I was at the police station in Huatulco Mexico when the arrest warrant was issued by the prosecuter and a police officer showed up at the station to pick up the paperwork and find the "predator". I hope that you or a loved one never have to undergo such a life changing experience.
 
James Goddard:
My position is that if she does so, and accuses a person by name in a public forum:

a) that person should have equal rights to defend himself and
b) the accusations should be open to questioning, rather than have all posts that question the valitidy of the acount deleted

There are 2 sides to every story, and only one side is being allowed to be repesented here.

James

I have to say that I agree with this totally. How many times have we seen a person complain about unfair or unscrupulous treatment from someone, then almost immediately have a mod contact the accused to afford them the chance to rebutt? I'm not complaining about it, I think it's great, but I think it should apply equally.
 
James Goddard:
My position is that if she does so, and accuses a person by name in a public forum:

a) that person should have equal rights to defend himself and
b) the accusations should be open to questioning, rather than have all posts that question the valitidy of the acount deleted

There are 2 sides to every story, and only one side is being allowed to be repesented here.

James

The defendant's message was posted here. Wasn't the first deleted because there was concern that the poster was not the defendant? When the defense is posted, is it then not valid to question the defense, using his own (translated) words combined with the available facts?

Since I feel that the emotional trauma of someone who has suffered a sexual attack by someone using life and death to force a power play is probably greater than someone who is being (even falsely) accused of it, I find it less risky to be supportive of the woman who brought this topic to the board rather than assuming she's suspect unless she can provide documentation that the legal system saw it her way in favor of lending "support" to the defendant, who apparently had enough to cause both PADI and local law enforcement concern, who is not present, thus does not really risk suffering greater emotional damage by having me shrug it off as unproven.
 
Ishie:
The defendant's message was posted here. Wasn't the first deleted because there was concern that the poster was not the defendant? When the defense is posted, is it then not valid to question the defense, using his own (translated) words combined with the available facts?


I haven't seen the comments that were 'apparently' posted on the forum. As the victim in question, I would welcome these comments, especially considering that they would be coming from his wife and not him. Please post these comments or let me know what was said. What happened to me is the God honest truth and I pray that it will never happen to anyone else anywhere, especially in the diving community. I am still not back to work and the extensive therapy is exhausting. My family has been torn apart by this situation and I will get through it - eventually. As a very outgoing person, I no longer want to be around anyone except my immediate family. I welcome you all to write me anytime. Thanks for your continual support. It means the world to me.
 
Ishie:
The defendant's message was posted here. Wasn't the first deleted because there was concern that the poster was not the defendant? When the defense is posted, is it then not valid to question the defense, using his own (translated) words combined with the available facts?

There is very active damage being done to this man's reputation and career. It may very well be deserved, but allowing him to defend himself pending verification will at worst delay the truth.

Ishie:
Since I feel that the emotional trauma of someone who has suffered a sexual attack by someone using life and death to force a power play is probably greater than someone who is being (even falsely) accused of it, I find it less risky to be supportive of the woman who brought this topic to the board rather than assuming she's suspect unless she can provide documentation that the legal system saw it her way in favor of lending "support" to the defendant, who apparently had enough to cause both PADI and local law enforcement concern, who is not present, thus does not really risk suffering greater emotional damage by having me shrug it off as unproven.

That may be your feeling but until you've personally experienced both sides of that coin you really are just guessing.

Personally, I have felt the side of the falsely accused. Once when I was still a teen I was working for an insurance company. I got into a disagreement with a coworker and, not my finest hour I admit, I was young, but I basicly implied that I didn't think much of her intelligence. Three days later I was brought into my bosses office with the companies lawyer. She had made up weeks of things I had said to "sexually harass" her. I had been tried and convicted before I had even known I had been accused. I was given the choice of signing a confession and agreement not to do it anymore or walk.

I was married at the time. This act of vengance could have cost a marrage as well as a job, and there was nothing I could do about it. It's been nearly 20 years and this event still clouds everything I do in an office setting. About 8 years ago I was working with another girl, who liked to forward adult humor to her coworkers. I collected 6 months worth of these emails before I ever sent her any. A couple of years later, after I had married her sister, it came out over drinks that I had done that. She was livid that I had been put into a sutation where that would be necissary.

Just so happened that that same sister and law and I worked at 2 different companies togther. There was a woman at the second company that shared an office with my sister in law. She was always trying to dance with execs at office parties and being very flirty. She all but admited to my sister in law that she was trying to get a good harrasment case against an exec for the money. Thankfully I wasn't high enough on the totum pole to be on that particular radar.

Real assaults happen and women really do take advantage of the policital climate and use false accusations as a weapon. Nobody should be so one sided to automaticly presume either is the case without proof.

I don't know what happend to Fonfon. Assuming a lack of physical evidence, there are only 2 people on the planet that ever will. I feel for her and I'm sorry for whatever happened or was perceived to have happend. I personally believe that something happened, but I know that someone else's life, carreer and reputation is being slung through the mud, and no one is being allowed to question anything.

Personally, I feel that the one sidedness of the way this is being handled and the absolute assumption of guilt is criminal.

James
 
aquaoren:
You'll excuse me if I don't take the findings of an organization like PADI as completely true and unbias. None of them are judges or prosecutors. They for sure have lawyers though that would have recommend severing all connections to the person in question because of reasons of liability and bad PR. PADI's actions aren't to protect us, they are to protect PADI, regardless of the consequences to anyone else beside PADI.
We don't know what really happened but hey, we don't need to know it because if PADI excluded him it must be true (Even if to cover their own behind). ...

My point as well, in my earlier post. That is also why instructors need to be especially vigilant with respect to any action involving a student or a class. Perception is sometimes confused with reality, and then once the snowball starts rolling, it grows, and you cannot stop it.
 
James Goddard:


I think the MODs should delete the whole issue from Scubaboard just to be safe.

fonfon5:
Three weeks ago today my life changed forever. I decided to take my open water course while on vacation. While doing my practical exam on my fourth dive, I was sexually assaulted by the dive instructor at 60 feet below the surface. My heart is pounding hard just writing about this incident. I made all the necessary reports to the Police (the accused was arrested and put in jail), the local tourism office and to the diving agency. After a thorough investigation, the diving agency called me last night and told me that the instructor has now been expelled from their agency and can no longer instruct, or better yet, hurt other divers. I am now in extensive therapy and it is going to be a long time before the pain and nightmares subside. Has anyone had any similar experiences?

This story sounds heart rending. The detail is not given, for obvious reasons.

The Federalies made up their own mind, apparently.

From the looks of things, it sounds like an assault to me.
 
Ishie:
So then is it your position that the original poster had no business posting here seeking support for her emotional trauma and feeling she should warn others?

The original poster has all the rights to post whatever she wants, where ever she wants and seek support for her trauma. I question though the quality of support you can get from a public board about Scuba Diving.

Or is it your position that people hearing her story should not have been moved and posted to lend her their support?

Again, everyone has the right to express their opinions as long as they stay within the TOS. Right Andy? :eyebrow: Which means that I can do so as well. ;)

Should victims ONLY tell local law enforcement and save telling others until criminal proceedings have legally determined guilt or innocence? Until then, shut up? If the courts rule insufficient evidence, should the victim then be permanently shushed from discussing the trauma of an incident in fear that people might negatively judge her assailant?

Well, if a criminal court finds someone innocent because of what reason so ever, than the "alleged victim" could face much more unpleasantries if continuing to accuse someone publicly. Discussing the trauma of an incident in private with professional help is something that is very important and should be done more to help victims.

Just curious. After all, the board is discussing a relevant issue; not determining this whether this guy is guilty under penalty of law. I don't see any real reason to doubt the original poster given surrounding circumstances, and the guy's defense certainly doesn't seem to help his side, so I'm not sure what the original problem was with lending support to the poster or believing her. It's not like my opinion determines whether the guy ends up in jail. Were my opinion to determine that, I would either remove myself as biased or evaluate all of the evidence to see if sufficient to imprison him.
What surrounding circumstances? What facts do we really have beside PADI covering themselfs legally?
You did read the guy's resonse? Just to play the devils advocate here:
Would it be possible that if someone is being reported for damaging reefs and taking animals from a protected marine area, he could expect prosecution and hefty fines? Would it be possible that someone comes with a bigger scandal in order to avoid the prosecution and hefty fines?
I'm not saying that it happened in any certain way, nor am casting doubts in the integrity of the poster but this should be true for you as well. Why are you casting any doubts in the guy's integrity?
The issue at hand is not about lending support to victims. This is noble and good but can it be done without lynching the guy? Considering that we really do not have any facts.
Besides, I just don't know what kind of support this board can give to a person that experienced such a horrible thing like sexual assault but I may underestimate the collective power of the board.
 
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