Serious concerns in Belize

[Mike]

and then back up with appropriate deco stops

Is this a typo?

WTF more needs to be said? Now the dive profile involves taking newbies on a dive that ends with deco obligations, and more than one?????

You're telling me they are diving this dive in a way that puts you into deco? Seriously?

 

[flareside]

Mike, I believe it is a misstatement. He should have called it a safety stop. It's not specifically required but if you don't take it, you will be more limited in what you can do for the remainder of the day.

 

[Mike]

What? A missed 3 minute safety stop would limit your diving for the rest of the day?

Recreational diving is non-decompression diving. A safety stop is a suggestion, not a requirement. I'm not advocating not doing safety stops, my computer is set to a 5 minute stop for every dive I do, however there seems to be a lot of divers either using incorrect terminology on this thread, or there is a miss-understanding of basic dive theory by more than one on this thread.

I think someone posted that they hang tank(s) at 15 ft????? What's that all about? For such a simple safe dive it sounds like their are more than a few incidents of OOA situations going on if they are hanging tanks at a safety stop for recreational divers.

Some please feel free to correct me on all this if I have it incorrect.

 

[supergaijin]

PADI's DSAT tables require safety stops on any dive below 30m/100' and anytime you're at the limit of deco or within 2 pressure groups of that limit.

Hang tanks are sensible when planning deep dives. They are an added safety feature- not a planning feature.

 

[peterbj7]

Hanging tanks are not only a good idea, they are specifically recommended by PADI.

After any dive to this sort of depth a safety stop is required, not necessarily because the diver has "gone into deco" (whatever that means) but as a prudent measure. Again, read PADI standards.

In fact there is a considerable likelihood on this dive of straying into deco, as the dive is right to the limits (or over them). Formal deco stops are rarely required though as the deco obligation usually disappears during ascent.

I don't know whether taking a safety stop will improve your dive profile for the rest of the day, but I doubt it. The purpose of a safety stop is to reduce the pressure gradient of notrogen in your body at that moment and make your final ascent to the surface safer, not to reduce your overall uptake of nitrogen. I do know that if I choose to dive air for the remaining two dives on that day my available bottom time (according to my computer) is considerably reduced from what I might have expected. For that reason I generally use nitrox for those dives, which also has the benefit of reducing my overall nitrogen loading.

 

[Downing]

Hanging tanks are not only a good idea, they are specifically recommended by PADI.

After any dive to this sort of depth a safety stop is required, not necessarily because the diver has "gone into deco" (whatever that means) but as a prudent measure. Again, read PADI standards.

Prudent because the deeper you go the more risk of deco you are and the faster you blow through your air.

I agree that there are plenty of unqualified divers who are allowed to make that dive every day. I got my Advanced card specifically for the deep dive in preparation for my first trip to the Blue Hole. I was surprised to learn after I got there that pretty much anything goes in terms of who's allowed to dive it. But the three times I've done it with Turneffe Island Resort the ratio of dive masters/instructors to tourists was around one to three, and they watched over the divers like hawks over chickens.

 

[OCDiver59]

Is this a typo?

WTF more needs to be said? Now the dive profile involves taking newbies on a dive that ends with deco obligations, and more than one?????

You're telling me they are diving this dive in a way that puts you into deco? Seriously?

It may be moreaccurate to say safety stops rather than deco stops. However you say it, youwill be instructed to make 2 stops, one a 50' and one a 15' during your ascent.As far as newbie’s, this is not a dive for newbie’s. It is also not a dive tomake without a DM who has experience with this dive and its profile. Havingmade the BH dive I would sum it up like this:

1- This dive is short and not very remarkable. I would guess that most diversdo this dive for the bragging rights. As you can see in this thread many diverswho have made this dive also say that they have, or would, pass on anotheropportunity to make it.
2- The DM's experienced with this dive use a very strict dive profile. There isno time given to explore or hang around on your own.
3- The BH is like diving in a pool, a very deep pool. There is not current orsurge. You can get in a lot more trouble at much shallower depths when dealingwith strong currents, down currents or simply stop paying attention to how muchair you have.
4- I would notrecommend this dive unless you are a healthy, confident and at least an AdvancedOpen Water Diver.
5- If you dodecide to dive the BH, then you should choose your Boat and DM mastercarefully. Do not sign up in advance onthe internet to save a few bucks. Iwould recommend that you get to Belize and visit your shortlist of diveoperators so that you can see the boat and meet the DM that you would be divingwith. Ask questions, like how manydivers per DM, how many times has the DM dived the BH, what is the dive profilethat they will follow, what safety measures do they take on this dive, etc.
6- In the endit is an individual choice to do this dive and like it has been said, you are onyour own down there, so do not rely on fancy internet sites or someone else’s opinionon whether you are qualified to make this dive.
7- Finally andmost importantly, if you are asking others, “Am I qualified to dive the BH?”the answer is probably NO! You would notbe asking the question if you were.

 

[Mike]

I'll dive my computer when I dive to 130 ft. And it won't tell me to make 2 stops unless I ignore my NDL time and go into in deco dive, which I won't do anyways. I'll follow my computers NDL time to determine my bottom time and I'll make a slow ascent and do a 5 min safety stop at 15 feet and I won't be sucking off a hanging tank because I'll dive responsibly and manage my air properly.

Sorry but this entire thing is slowly revealing itself for what it is. 2 'safety stops' is a disguised deco stop for all the idiots being taken on this dive without a computer and just the dive ops poor attempt to reduce risk by doing a seat of the pants, blanket, deco stop at 50 feet. Hanging tanks is just another disguised dive operator attempt to limit the risks involved with them taking unqualified divers on this dive, qualified divers would have the experience required not to need hanging tanks at the safety stop. Based on what we keep hearing about the dives and all the cluster f**k OOA incidents no wonder they hang tanks. Might want to hang another set at 50 ft too.

Prudent because the deeper you go the more risk of deco you are and the faster you blow through your air.

I agree that there are plenty of unqualified divers who are allowed to make that dive every day. I got my Advanced card specifically for the deep dive in preparation for my first trip to the Blue Hole. I was surprised to learn after I got there that pretty much anything goes in terms of who's allowed to dive it. But the three times I've done it with Turneffe Island Resort the ratio of dive masters/instructors to tourists was around one to three, and they watched over the divers like hawks over chickens.

We are looking at doing a week of diving with them also, glad to hear a positive safety report on them.

How'd you like the rest of the resort while you were there, did you happen to do any fishing too?

 

[supergaijin]

Drop tanks under boats can be seen in many places around the world. Koh Tao's Chumphon Pinnacle springs to mind for one. There are 3 or 4 mooring lines and it's common to see boats with drop tanks as a contingency.

I wish I could use them here in the Maldives but there is no anchoring allowed so the boats are continuously underway.

Some newer computers also have DeepStop options for deeper divers. Most recreational dive profiles don't need deep stops as they're not that deep and often multilevel anyway. That may be the reason behind having 2 separate safety stops mentioned earlier.

 

[AWMIII]

Then you must improve your own diving so you're empowered to make your own diving decisions. Don't rely on DMs or others to make those for you. As I've said several times, you're alone down there, even when there are other people around you.

Peter-
This all goes back to the post that i made a few months ago that resulted in my being lambasted about how safe diving in Belize is.

The fact that all dives in Belize are closely guided by local DMs invites tourists to feel like everything is being taken care of. I should just be able to follow along with the DM and have a safe dive.

My experience at the BH was that if you could not get down in a fairly short time, you were forced to bail out and swim back to the boat on the surface. There is a reason that i have heard AC DMs refer to the Bh trip as 'The Rodeo". They have people with questionable experience levels. They do not even really know anything about their experience levels. Divers who may have NO experience with being narced. They go to a depth where narcosis is fairly likely. They do this over a 450ft bottom, 2 hrs from help.

I do not know how much actual experience you have with diving in the states, but I do know that if this dive was in the states, in the Keys, log books would be mandatory and would be checked. Divers with less than an ideal amount of documentable experience would need to hire a personal DM for their buddy pair, and everyone else would simply be told that the "Pool is Open" be back in 2 hrs. The non-personally hired DMs would very likley never get wet.

I am not advocating this method, but when divers are required to stay with the DMs as they are in Belize, it is easy to assume that the DMs are there to manage their dives. It is especially easy for divers who have little experience.

You and I agree on almost every point. The amazing fact is that the mandatory guiding may have made the diving more dangerous since it encourages novice divers to dive beyond their comfort, experience, and training.

To the OP:
I have an 8 year old daughter who is extremely enthusiastic about diving. She has done a fair amount of snorkeling in belize and loves it. I work almost every week with training new divers with my local shop in Philadelphia. I have helped to train a lot of kids. I have logged at least 30 dives off San Pedro. I would be nervous about doing even local dives off San Pedro on Ambergris Caye with a child.

Dive Hol Chan with a safe experienced DM for your first dive. It is inside the reef and relatively shallow. Know what the tide is likely to be doing there. There can be a really strong current.

When you do go outside the reef, pick a really good weather day. The trip through the reef can be really rough. Getting in and out of a small boat when it is rough is not fun for anyone. After you are in the water with her, MANAGE YOUR AND HER PROFILES. It is easy for any dive outside the reef to be an 80ft dive. I have seen newbie divers get to 115 by simply tagging along with the DMs. You should be able to keep the dive in the 45ft range if you talk to the operator first and MANAGE YOUR PROFILE. Take a safety sausage. If you are staying relatively shallow, you might get seperated from the group and a sausage is great to have. The barrier reef is the lee shore of the entire Carribean. The reef can be an angry place. There can be surge, substantial currents and big waves. If the surf on the reef looks big, grab a kayak and go snorkeling inside the reef. It is great fun to free dive for conch and lobster in season while snorkeling on the reef.

---------- Post Merged at 10:41 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:24 AM ----------

Oh, and talk about the nurse sharks before hand. They are sometimes overly friendly and can intimidate adults if they are not prepared for them.