Serious concerns in Belize

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Can't add much to that, Bill (AWMIII). Diving here certainly isn't as rigorous as it can be in the States (I can think of exceptions to your observation) and because of the Tour Guide rule most dive staff have little or no experience of diving elsewhere. I sometimes find that things that are obvious to me, with my substantial diving experience in far more strenuous conditions than we usually have, are regarded here as rather quirky and unnecesary. My insistence for example that virtually every dive ends with a DSMB being deployed. My concern that a dive briefing covers every possible eventuality (such as the four distinct current states in Hol Chan). My preference for a dive plan (which is then observed) or a computer that the diver is familiar with, with no clear water between.

Another problem is that because diving here is generally easy and predictable (albeit relatively deep for visiting inexperienced warm water divers) dive leaders tend to be a bit too relaxed, and assume that they will be able to deal with anything that may crop up. Most of the time they'll be quite right. When I teach recreational diving I feel uncomfortable taking more than two students into open water, and sometimes even two is too many. That's because in my past experience I've seen things go horribly wrong and I'm always thinking "what if?". I once really impressed a local resort manager who was then just an OW diver with the care I took over a DSD, especially after he had seen a local DM performing a similar role. Not because I was particularly good at it, but because I remembered certain basic essentials and kept those to the fore, things like not allowing the diver to go deeper than me on the way down or shallower on the way up. Basic things that the DM hadn't bothered with. 99 times out of 100 that DM would have no problem, but my concern is with that 100th time. Of course, when teaching technical diving (something I haven't done for a while) the reasons for my strict adherence to certain principles become clear.

As you say, there is a tendency amongst certain visitors to assume that the DM knows best and to stop thinking for themselves. So long as you accept him as a guide but not your guardian things should go well.
 
I'll dive my computer when I dive to 130 ft. And it won't tell me to make 2 stops unless I ignore my NDL time and go into in deco dive, which I won't do anyways. I'll follow my computers NDL time to determine my bottom time and I'll make a slow ascent and do a 5 min safety stop at 15 feet and I won't be sucking off a hanging tank because I'll dive responsibly and manage my air properly.

Sorry but this entire thing is slowly revealing itself for what it is. 2 'safety stops' is a disguised deco stop for all the idiots being taken on this dive without a computer and just the dive ops poor attempt to reduce risk by doing a seat of the pants, blanket, deco stop at 50 feet. Hanging tanks is just another disguised dive operator attempt to limit the risks involved with them taking unqualified divers on this dive, qualified divers would have the experience required not to need hanging tanks at the safety stop. Based on what we keep hearing about the dives and all the cluster f**k OOA incidents no wonder they hang tanks. Might want to hang another set at 50 ft too.

We are looking at doing a week of diving with them also, glad to hear a positive safety report on them.

How'd you like the rest of the resort while you were there, did you happen to do any fishing too?

Loved the resort enough to go back a second time and will probably do a third in the near future. Stoo wrote the definitive trip report on it a few months ago, but mine had more topside photos, lol. I don't fish, but there were three or four fishermen there both times. They come back at the end of the day bone tired but reasonably happy.

It's standard procedure at TIR to drop down to the BH lip at 50 feet, gather there and once everyone's ready go over the lip and down to 130. Hang around about five minutes, maybe swim around one of the massive stalactites if one is so inclined, then ascend back up to the lip. Hang out there and watch the sharks. If you get lucky, they'll be circling around you looking for a handout. Then it's on to the safety stop at 15 feet.

The two safety stops and hanging tanks aren't just for idiots in Belize. They are part of the protocol for a deep dive for everyone everywhere. If you take the Deep Dive class or the Advanced Open Water class (where one of the mandatory dives is a deep dive) you'll learn all about it. One of the "skills" you practice in DD is breathing off a tank hanging at 15 feet for 8 minutes, probably the easiest "skill" to master in PADI's playbook. The stops and tanks are just extra safety precautions because a deep dive is inherently riskier than a shallow one.
 
<<they'll be circling around you looking for a handout>> Are you saying that someone does feed them sometimes here?
 
Thanks for the info on the resort.

The two safety stops and hanging tanks aren't just for idiots in Belize. They are part of the protocol for a deep dive for everyone everywhere. If you take the Deep Dive class or the Advanced Open Water class (where one of the mandatory dives is a deep dive) you'll learn all about it. One of the "skills" you practice in DD is breathing off a tank hanging at 15 feet for 8 minutes, probably the easiest "skill" to master in PADI's playbook. The stops and tanks are just extra safety precautions because a deep dive is inherently riskier than a shallow one.

I have rescue cert, never did any 50 foot stops or 15 foot tank breathing during certifications for AOW, nor do I recall anything about that in the PADI source material. If deep dive specialty contains that, then perhaps that's where PADI goes into it. Other than that have never done it or seen it in any of the many deep dives made with 1st class operators I've dived with over the years. The blue hole dive sounds to me to be the worlds most often dived trust me dive on the planet.
 
Well, we recently moved and a lot of my stuff is scattered and I couldn't find my DD manual. But I did come across and dust off my "Adventures In Diving" manual, the one for AOW, and you're right, there's nothing in the Deep chapter on hanging tanks and extra stops. All I can tell you is I learned it somewhere, lol, most likely in my DD course.

And it certainly sounds as though you've dived deep a lot more than I have but it's the same protocol we followed when I dived the Spiegel Grove off Key Largo a few years ago.

I don't know that I would worry much about it being a "trust me dive" since it sounds like you can handle yourself just fine. I don't mean to sound cold, but if someone croaks there because they don't know what they're doing, didn't take care of their gear, etc, well that's on him or her. I was there when a staff person from Ramon's Village died. Very sad but it was his mistake. It had nothing to do with deep diving but still sh*t happens when you get in the water.

Have fun if you go to TIR and say hi to Brad, Marcel, Daniel and John for me. Great dive staff, great guys.

Shasta Man: I dunno. I haven't seen anyone feed them. But the sharks sure acted like they were expecting us to feed them as they circled around us pretty tight for the entire return stop at the lip, staring at us the whole time. Based on their behavior, I'd say somebody had been feeding them.
 
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Certain dive operators chum the water (from the boat) when they think most people should have left the water. On one occasion I was coming up from a technical dive with my student and saw a feeding frenzy just above us. We decided to go another way.

In their recreational dive courses PADI only list hanging tanks and deep stops in the Deep Diver specialty. But it's pretty basic stuff really.
 
We were in a similar situation with not wanting to dive to 130. The DMs at TIR allowed a group of divers to hang at 90 while another DM took the more experienced divers down to 130. It worked out perfectly. We still had the experience, saw about 10 beautiful sharks and the other group got what they wanted. This is the advantage of a relatively small group and multiple DMs. The Lighthouse dive after was amazing too.
 
Thanks for the info on the resort.



I have rescue cert, never did any 50 foot stops or 15 foot tank breathing during certifications for AOW, nor do I recall anything about that in the PADI source material. If deep dive specialty contains that, then perhaps that's where PADI goes into it. Other than that have never done it or seen it in any of the many deep dives made with 1st class operators I've dived with over the years. The blue hole dive sounds to me to be the worlds most often dived trust me dive on the planet.
Actually, it's included in the PADI DM Manual for setting up a deep dive, although the deep stop is not include, that I remember.
Jack's Dive Locker does a deep, advanced dive in Kona. I went on their two tank, Advanced trip. The first dive was to about 110 feet and they had the hang tanks out. We did a safety stop at 15 feet, you could use the hang tanks if needed. The second dive was shallower but we went into the lava tubes. Lots of surge and a semi "overhead" environment, sort of a cavern dive. Great experience for me at the time. Plus, I saw a fish that I've yet to be able to identify. It was bigger than me, sitting at 110 feet inside a lava tube. Somebody got some pictures but unfortunately, I don't have any to keep trying to identify it. Just my memory.
anyway, I do think the hang tanks at 15 feet are a standard PADI recommendation for deep dives. I think deep stops are currently standard, according to most of the up to date information on decompression science. I would recommend Deco For Divers if you'd like more in-depth info on deep stops.
 
Sorry for resurrecting this thread... I've been busy diving all summer!

Getting back to the original posters question, the issue here isn't whether shops take divers to 130'+ in the Blue Hole... It's the fact that his daughter is 11 years old. No agency, or diving medical organization will ever sanction a dive for a child at 130' or anywhere near it. There are countless reasons for this... the unknown physiological aspects, the maturity issues, the ability of a child to respond appropriately in an emergency and so on. I don't know anything about the OPs diving background, but imagine a situation where HE had a problem at that depth and his daughter tried to assist. Ugh.

I've done a number of dives at the BH, and since we are staying at Huracan Diving this year, I imagine we'll do a few more. As others have said, it's a bit of a bucket list dive. I have had some really fun dives there, and some that weren't that great. The reasons for the differences ranged from visibility to the "company".

I have a few photos from the "bottom" (of the dive, not the Hole!) and it can be a cool place to dive. Having said that, I am generally somewhat terrified when I am there, for the following reason. Most of the people down there are in no way, shape or form, experienced or qualified to be there and nobody, including me, is properly equipped to be at 130'+.

Almost all of my diving up here in the Great Lakes is around that depth... say 110' to 180'... When I am diving here, at that sort of depth, I am carrying redundant everything... tanks, computers etc, and carry deco-juice to clean up at the end of the dive.

I have always felt that taking a group of divers down that deep is foolish, but I also understand the desire to give the customers what they want. A shop that refuses to take unqualified clients to the BH won't save the client from themselves... they'll just loose a client to another shop. Which I presume is better than loosing a customer into the depths of the Blue Hole.

Anyway, back to the original poster, she's your daughter. It's your responsibility to make certain she is safe. If she wanted to borrow the car and take it down the freeway, would you let her?

There is some fabulous diving out that way, and the trip might be worth it for those dives alone. But in my opinion, taking an 11 year old to a depth of 130' is completely irresponsible.
 

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I've done a number of dives at the BH, and since we are staying at Huracan Diving this year, I imagine we'll do a few more.

When? I look forward to reading another one of your ridiculously great trip reports. A compare/contrast with TIR would be much appreciated.
 
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