separate octopus vs. bcd inflator/second stage combo

[Bob DBF]

I once had 2 separate buddies with a leaking Air 2 or similar device...

It’s not the fault of gear that owners do not maintain it. I used an Oceanic Air 2 clone for 4 or 5 years and had no issues. A buddy had/has a newer Air 2 and it has worked flawlessly.

Think about that cheap rental reg that didn't really breathe that well but was tolerable.

If that cheap rental reg was adjusted properly it would probably breathe as good as most other regs on the market. These days it takes a machine to find the difference in breathing between most regs.



Bob

 

[CuzzA]

makes the hoses proprietary (meaning you need yours as the standard wont connect).

The hose is a standard regulator hose. The larger Schrader valve used for Octo/Inflators screw on to it. This is a common misconception and many people have been duped by SP, et al. unnecessarily shelling out extra money.

 

[Belzelbub]

It’s not the fault of gear that owners do not maintain it. I used an Oceanic Air 2 clone for 4 or 5 years and had no issues. A buddy had/has a newer Air 2 and it has worked flawlessly.

Exactly. A regulator, inflator, or combo shouldn’t leak. If it does, it needs service. I’ve been using combos since 2003 or so. Started with an Octo+, now have Octo-Zs. They were serviced regularly, and never leaked.

 

[outofofficebrb]

It’s not the fault of gear that owners do not maintain it. I used an Oceanic Air 2 clone for 4 or 5 years and had no issues. A buddy had/has a newer Air 2 and it has worked flawlessly.



If that cheap rental reg was adjusted properly it would probably breathe as good as most other regs on the market. These days it takes a machine to find the difference in breathing between most regs.



Bob

Exactly. A regulator, inflator, or combo shouldn’t leak. If it does, it needs service. I’ve been using combos since 2003 or so. Started with an Octo+, now have Octo-Zs. They were serviced regularly, and never leaked.

Correct and I agree. The take home point for me is when it does happen, and even when gear is serviced regularly it can still happen, it is way more of a hassle to manage than a traditional octo if you need to swap it out or troubleshoot unless you are carrying the spare parts to fix or convert it yourself and/or know how to service, etc. If I had a problem with my octo, it is a standard connection, I can just swap it out with another octo or reg set and still use my own BC. You can't do that for an Air2 or similar because the connections are not standard. Lastly, in an emergency, it is one less step for my donor to do before he gives me the octo. I don't need him to properly be ready to swap out the stages and switch before he hands me the one I am supposed to get. It matters to me if I were panicking. Also, while trying to breathe from the spare air and manage buoyancy, especially if a rescue situation is needed, it is definitely more hassle to me than the benefits.

 

[lexvil]

Correct and I agree. The take home point for me is when it does happen, and even when gear is serviced regularly it can still happen, it is way more of a hassle to manage than a traditional octo if you need to swap it out or troubleshoot unless you are carrying the spare parts to fix or convert it yourself and/or know how to service, etc. If I had a problem with my octo, it is a standard connection, I can just swap it out with another octo or reg set and still use my own BC. You can't do that for an Air2 or similar because the connections are not standard. Lastly, in an emergency, it is one less step for my donor to do before he gives me the octo. I don't need him to properly be ready to swap out the stages and switch before he hands me the one I am supposed to get. It matters to me if I were panicking. Also, while trying to breathe from the spare air and manage buoyancy, especially if a rescue situation is needed, it is definitely more hassle to me than the benefits.

That’s why I adopted Zeagle inflators to go with my Atomic (already had these) a simple adaptor for the hose and unscrew the SS1 and screw on the inflator, or the other way around if a reg fails. There are plenty of work around for any configuration.

 

[Belzelbub]

Correct and I agree. The take home point for me is when it does happen, and even when gear is serviced regularly it can still happen, it is way more of a hassle to manage than a traditional octo if you need to swap it out or troubleshoot unless you are carrying the spare parts to fix or convert it yourself and/or know how to service, etc. If I had a problem with my octo, it is a standard connection, I can just swap it out with another octo or reg set and still use my own BC. You can't do that for an Air2 or similar because the connections are not standard.

Fair point. There appear to be a total of 3 quick connects in use. The standard inflator, and two versions for the combos. Most of the combos use one type, however. The other looks to be primarily be used by older versions. Type 2 is for Seaquest Airsource, Zeagle Octo+, Oceanic AirXS, and Mares AirControl. The third type is used by the more common offerings from Atomic, Scubapro, Tusa, and Zeagle Octo-Z. I generally don't carry spare 2nd stages, or combos, but really haven't had a need to.

A friend of mine had a problem with his regulator prior to a dive. I had my daughter's regulator with me, so let him use it. My daughter's reg has the Octo-Z, but his used a traditional setup. I just unscrewed the combo hose from her regulator, and connected his inflator hose. I think this was probably done without him getting out of the water.

That’s why I adopted Zeagle inflators to go with my Atomic (already had these) a simple adaptor for the hose and unscrew the SS1 and screw on the inflator, or the other way around if a reg fails. There are plenty of work around for any configuration.

Those are great, and they have a secondary benefit. With traditional systems and a combo, the combo usually stays with the BC, so there is more required when it's time to service. Could lead to skipping service on these. With the Zeagle/Atomic screw on connection, the combo can be stored with the 1st stage and primary. At service time, they are already together.

 

[RobPNW]

In the analogy, I want the run flat, no way I’m changing a tire in that heat.

LOL

 

[Bob DBF]

The larger Schrader valve used for Octo/Inflators screw on to it.

They are more like an air hose fitting, no Schrader valve involved.

elplastic.

 

[RobPNW]

On the Airsource, I see a dump on the hose itself so that a diver can breath and exhaust air at the same time. This is one of the main concepts that has kept me from going this route. At the same time, can anyone with real hands-on experience with the Airsource comment on how likely that hose dump will be a failure point?

 

[rsingler]

On the Airsource, I see a dump on the hose itself so that a diver can breath and exhaust air at the same time. This is one of the main concepts that has kept me from going this route. At the same time, can anyone with real hands-on experience with the Airsource comment on how likely that hose dump will be a failure point?

Like many divers, I started that way too. No more.
There are several issues in practice.
From a maintenance standpoint, unless it's easily detached like Atomic or Aqualung, a safe second rarely gets the same post-dive rinse attention that your main second stage gets. The spindle of the exhaust valve is quite prone to corrosion (except for the $300 titanium Atomic SS1), and I've serviced more than one safe second with a stuck-open exhaust valve. That could be a problem when you need buoyancy.
As for your question about the "hose dump", if you are referring to the cable pull dump on the bcd shoulder, you cannot use that while breathing from the reg except for the Aqualung model with a split linkage and the ability to pull on the hose center. And there was an old long thread arguing against using the pull dump in the first place. There is at least one photo circulating of a completely torn off elbow from too vigorous use of the cable pull.
But the real challenge is on a shared air ascent. Unless you practice it, controlling your own buoyancy as your bcd gas expands is a bit of a challenge with the reg in your mouth, and your other arm linked with your OOA diver. You may need to remove the reg to lift the hose to vent, if you fall behind with expanding gas, and you're already task loaded from the OOA emergency. Can be a challenge to avoid corking, especially if your buddy is panicked and you have to also reach over to vent his bcd, along with your own.
Defenders will say that "it's just practice", and they're right. But it's a poorer performing second stage; it's prone to corrosion, and having my necklaced second right there after handing off my primary is just too easy.