Searching for opinions about Rescuing a diver and decompression stop
- Thread starter briaeros007
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This is really one of the questions which every person should consider, before undertaking dives with significant decompression obligations.
If someone is unresponsive at depth, and does not regain consciousness during transport to the surface, their prognosis is rather bleak. If I had a small deco obligation (say, less than 15 minutes), I would take them to the surface, get on the boat and strongly consider breathing some O2 for a while.
If the deco obligation is serious (and I would certainly consider an hour serious) then I'd be doing some very distasteful risk assessment calculations. I can take the victim to the surface, and if I'm lucky enough to be asymptomatic at that point, I can go back down on an "omitted decompression" schedule -- which is going to be far longer and riskier than what I originally planned. Does the boat have gas to support that? Can the boat stay on station while I do it? Is there anybody who can attend me, so that if I become symptomatic, I have help?
I can get out of the water with the victim, and run a very large risk of taking a significant DCS hit. Your point about chambers within an hour is a good one.
I can send the victim to the surface without me -- but if he is not breathing, that virtually ensures a gas embolism or major pulmonary barotrauma -- but if he isn't breathing and hasn't been during his transport up, he may not be salvageable anyway.
I don't ever want to be in a position of having to make such decisions, which is one of the many reasons why I do only fairly insignificant staged decompression diving. In a cave, the answers are easier. You have no option of a quick surfacing, and if you have an unconscious and non-breathing diver way back in a cave, he's going to have to last an hour or more as you drag him out . . . it makes the decisions a little easier, I think.
If someone is unresponsive at depth, and does not regain consciousness during transport to the surface, their prognosis is rather bleak. If I had a small deco obligation (say, less than 15 minutes), I would take them to the surface, get on the boat and strongly consider breathing some O2 for a while.
If the deco obligation is serious (and I would certainly consider an hour serious) then I'd be doing some very distasteful risk assessment calculations. I can take the victim to the surface, and if I'm lucky enough to be asymptomatic at that point, I can go back down on an "omitted decompression" schedule -- which is going to be far longer and riskier than what I originally planned. Does the boat have gas to support that? Can the boat stay on station while I do it? Is there anybody who can attend me, so that if I become symptomatic, I have help?
I can get out of the water with the victim, and run a very large risk of taking a significant DCS hit. Your point about chambers within an hour is a good one.
I can send the victim to the surface without me -- but if he is not breathing, that virtually ensures a gas embolism or major pulmonary barotrauma -- but if he isn't breathing and hasn't been during his transport up, he may not be salvageable anyway.
I don't ever want to be in a position of having to make such decisions, which is one of the many reasons why I do only fairly insignificant staged decompression diving. In a cave, the answers are easier. You have no option of a quick surfacing, and if you have an unconscious and non-breathing diver way back in a cave, he's going to have to last an hour or more as you drag him out . . . it makes the decisions a little easier, I think.
OP
briaeros007
Registered
I think the post of TSandM is a very good summary of what is at stake.
I do have another question concerning the rescuing (I never stop ^^).
I'm not sure if I must make a new threads, or it is close enough to bring new elements to the ongoing discussion.
My question is :
When you are a group of 4 diver, and having deco stop to do (a light deco to simplify).
Do you think it's better that everyone go to the surface withtout doing their deco, or to split the group in 2 x 2 , and the rescuer surface alone with the victim, when others divers do their deco stop?
If we split,we limits the risk to have multiple person with DCS since only two person (victim and rescuer) will have a "borderline" deco stop.
If we don't split, the boat could start faster, and if the diving was dangerous, everybody will be at board if a dcs become declared on the other two divers.
My organization is fond of the first option (everybody up, no-one stay in the water), and it seems a little to risky to me (why risk a dcs on two more person ?
Without saying that if we must going on an heli, i doubt that 4 divers could get into the heli).
I do have another question concerning the rescuing (I never stop ^^).
I'm not sure if I must make a new threads, or it is close enough to bring new elements to the ongoing discussion.
My question is :
When you are a group of 4 diver, and having deco stop to do (a light deco to simplify).
Do you think it's better that everyone go to the surface withtout doing their deco, or to split the group in 2 x 2 , and the rescuer surface alone with the victim, when others divers do their deco stop?
If we split,we limits the risk to have multiple person with DCS since only two person (victim and rescuer) will have a "borderline" deco stop.
If we don't split, the boat could start faster, and if the diving was dangerous, everybody will be at board if a dcs become declared on the other two divers.
My organization is fond of the first option (everybody up, no-one stay in the water), and it seems a little to risky to me (why risk a dcs on two more person ?
Without saying that if we must going on an heli, i doubt that 4 divers could get into the heli).
This just happened recently, and has been discussed in the Accidents & Incidents section. There were 3 divers with fairly significant deco obligations. One had a problem. One of the other divers started up with the victim while the other stayed and preformed some deco obligation. If the original rescuer had problems, there was still a diver in the water that could assist them (now two victims). The original rescuer made it to the surface without symptoms and was later cleared. The other person completed some of their deco.
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ac...e-divers-rescued-st-lawrence.html#post6006813
RonFrank
Contributor
********** Mod Post *********
This is discussing "what if" deco obligations in combination with accidents while at depth. As the subject is complex and technical it has been moved out of Basic Discussions and into Technical diving.
This is discussing "what if" deco obligations in combination with accidents while at depth. As the subject is complex and technical it has been moved out of Basic Discussions and into Technical diving.
PfcAJ
Contributor
'Sending' an unconscious diver to the surface will just serve to finish him off. Horrible idea no matter what.
If your deco obligation is to the point where you can't get your buddy onto the surface and to the boat/ shore and stay with them, you need someone on the surface watching for you. Going back down to finish your deco once your buddy is in capable hands is a reasonable thing.
The next level is if your gas burden is such that you can't surface at all. This is where you need to think about support divers and come to the sober realization that if something happens at depth it will almost certainly result in a fatality.
If your deco obligation is to the point where you can't get your buddy onto the surface and to the boat/ shore and stay with them, you need someone on the surface watching for you. Going back down to finish your deco once your buddy is in capable hands is a reasonable thing.
The next level is if your gas burden is such that you can't surface at all. This is where you need to think about support divers and come to the sober realization that if something happens at depth it will almost certainly result in a fatality.
ucfdiver
Contributor
LiteHedded
Contributor
if my buddy goes unconscious during deco we're both going to the surface. fast.
on dives with significant enough decompression to stop and think about it there would be support available to assist.
stopping to worry about if I can blow off this deco isn't going to happen. I'd rather have two seriously injured divers than one dead one.
but a buddy going unconscious on you on a dive like this is very very bad news any way you slice it
on dives with significant enough decompression to stop and think about it there would be support available to assist.
stopping to worry about if I can blow off this deco isn't going to happen. I'd rather have two seriously injured divers than one dead one.
but a buddy going unconscious on you on a dive like this is very very bad news any way you slice it
OP
briaeros007
Registered
@randy88k5
I didn't see that there was an accident forum. Thanks for the info
@ucfdiver
If there are really 5min of delay before DCS occur, I wouldn't mind blowing my deco to transport the victim to the surface If I can do it immediately after.
But is there such delay ?
I've heard of inner ear decompression sickness which could be provoked even at depth (isobaric counter diffusion when doing a gas switch for example).
It's pretty far away from our subject, but does anyone have any data on the 5 min delay ?
And now the post is in the technical forum what about rescuing from a very deep mixed gas diving, where, the time to get to the surface could go well beyond 5 min (and I doesn't speak about deco yet ^^).
@LiteHedded
Personally, and from my couch, i'd rather be dead under water than a vegetable withtout possible recovery on the land.
I also think that one dead and one man in good health, are better than two dead, or two vegetables.
I didn't see that there was an accident forum. Thanks for the info
@ucfdiver
If there are really 5min of delay before DCS occur, I wouldn't mind blowing my deco to transport the victim to the surface If I can do it immediately after.
But is there such delay ?
I've heard of inner ear decompression sickness which could be provoked even at depth (isobaric counter diffusion when doing a gas switch for example).
It's pretty far away from our subject, but does anyone have any data on the 5 min delay ?
And now the post is in the technical forum what about rescuing from a very deep mixed gas diving, where, the time to get to the surface could go well beyond 5 min (and I doesn't speak about deco yet ^^).
@LiteHedded
Personally, and from my couch, i'd rather be dead under water than a vegetable withtout possible recovery on the land.
I also think that one dead and one man in good health, are better than two dead, or two vegetables.
LiteHedded
Contributor
@randy88k5
I didn't see that there was an accident forum. Thanks for the info
@ucfdiver
If there are really 5min of delay before DCS occur, I wouldn't mind blowing my deco to transport the victim to the surface If I can do it immediately after.
But is there such delay ?
I've heard of inner ear decompression sickness which could be provoked even at depth (isobaric counter diffusion when doing a gas switch for example).
It's pretty far away from our subject, but does anyone have any data on the 5 min delay ?
And now the post is in the technical forum what about rescuing from a very deep mixed gas diving, where, the time to get to the surface could go well beyond 5 min (and I doesn't speak about deco yet ^^).
@LiteHedded
Personally, and from my couch, i'd rather be dead under water than a vegetable withtout possible recovery on the land.
I also think that one dead and one man in good health, are better than two dead, or two vegetables.
well dont dive with me then cus you're going up. I'm not letting anyone drown if I can help it. I couldn't live with myself.
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