Search and Rescue - Lasers and Signaling Devices

[BRT]

I think the main issue here is you keep going back to laser use on aircrafts during general flights etc. we aren’t talking about that. So that is 100% irrelevant. We are talking specifically about. SAR situation where a lost diver is trying to be located.
Not yourself or anyone else has pointed to a single event where a SAR was called off because the lost individuals used a laser at the rescuing aircraft. I don’t need to see a million articles about people shooting police helicopters or airplanes landing at airports because again those are irrelevant situations to a lost diver at sea.
On top of the fact it’s already been pointed out factually that laser use on an aircraft is 100% legal for a distressed, Rescue situation I don’t think you have much of an argument anymore that a laser can’t be used. It can, That’s a fact. Is It the best item to get attention with? Probably not and I think that’s been well established in this thread. I also haven’t seen anyone claim a laser is the flat out “best” item to use. More simply that you can use a laser, which you can.
The main point of this discussion has become weather or not a SAR team is going to turn around and run home if they get hit by a laser in the middle of the ocean while searching for a lost diver. The reality is there is not a single verified Account of a SAR leaving a search grid over water because they got hit by a laser over water. Again I’m not talking about a random person shooting them from shore. I mean they are being shot from the open ocean where a laser should not be. If they are searching the open water and get a light source laser or not where one wouldn’t normally be they absolutely would go and investigate the source.

Probably one good thought here. If anyone is ever in the position of using a laser to signal a search plane it would be really good to stop using the laser when it turns towards you.

 

[Hoag]

... Not yourself or anyone else has pointed to a single event where a SAR was called off because the lost individuals used a laser at the rescuing aircraft.

By contrast, not yourself or anyone else has pointed to a single event where a person was rescued solely because the person used a laser. I have, however given an example where a Medivac helicopter was grounded because the pilot was unable to fly following a laser event.

I don’t need to see a million articles about people shooting police helicopters or airplanes landing at airports because again those are irrelevant situations to a lost diver at sea.

Actually, it absolutely is relevant. If a pilot or a member of the aircrew get lased, regardless of the type of aircraft involved, the pilot will protect the aircrew and the aircraft. They have no idea whether it is a person in distress or how powerful the laser is, they will simply remove themselves from the potential threat to their safety.

On top of the fact it’s already been pointed out factually that laser use on an aircraft is 100% legal for a distressed, Rescue situation ...

Just because something is not illegal, does not mean it is not stupid.

I don’t think you have much of an argument anymore that a laser can’t be used. It can, That’s a fact. Is It the best item to get attention with? Probably not and I think that’s been well established in this thread. I also haven’t seen anyone claim a laser is the flat out “best” item to use. More simply that you can use a laser, which you can.

Fair enough, but why would you want so desperately to use a system that is less than ideal and if fact might have the opposite result from the one you are hoping for.

The main point of this discussion has become weather or not a SAR team is going to turn around and run home if they get hit by a laser in the middle of the ocean while searching for a lost diver. The reality is there is not a single verified Account of a SAR leaving a search grid over water because they got hit by a laser over water. Again I’m not talking about a random person shooting them from shore. I mean they are being shot from the open ocean where a laser should not be. If they are searching the open water and get a light source laser or not where one wouldn’t normally be they absolutely would go and investigate the source.

I have a friend who works with a SAR unit in Comox BC. I have just posed the following question to them" "Can you please ask your "SAR folks" (ideally pilot or spotter) what they would do if they were conducting a SAR Op over water at night and were illuminated by a laser. How would they react?"

 

[WetInPortland]

OK, so I get the concern about temporary incapacitation / loss of night vision for pilots from a laser directed at them.

Someone posted this link (and I'm too lazy to go back through 24 pages of this tread again to find it): trendowner.com/products/military-spec-laser-pointer-pen, but I was surprised that no one commented on the "starry head adapter". It would seem like this would address issues with precise aiming and reduce the intensity when directing the device at people, whether pilots or a ship's bridge crew (who would presumably also be temporarily incapacitated if hit with a laser, albeit with likely less serious consequences).

Unfortunately the site does not specify viewable distance, either with or with out the diffuser head, so it's difficult to say if this trades off too much distance. Still, might this be a viable solution?

 

[BRT]

OK, so I get the concern about temporary incapacitation / loss of night vision for pilots from a laser directed at them.

Someone posted this link (and I'm too lazy to go back through 24 pages of this tread again to find it): trendowner.com/products/military-spec-laser-pointer-pen, but I was surprised that no one commented on the "starry head adapter". It would seem like this would address issues with precise aiming and reduce the intensity when directing the device at people, whether pilots or a ship's bridge crew (who would presumably also be temporarily incapacitated if hit with a laser, albeit with likely less serious consequences).

Unfortunately the site does not specify viewable distance, either with or with out the diffuser head, so it's difficult to say if this trades off too much distance. Still, might this be a viable solution?

Use your dive light.

 

[Diver below 83]

By contrast, not yourself or anyone else has pointed to a single event where a person was rescued solely because the person used a laser. I have, however given an example where a Medivac helicopter was grounded because the pilot was unable to fly following a laser event.


Actually, it absolutely is relevant. If a pilot or a member of the aircrew get lased, regardless of the type of aircraft involved, the pilot will protect the aircrew and the aircraft. They have no idea whether it is a person in distress or how powerful the laser is, they will simply remove themselves from the potential threat to their safety.

Just because something is not illegal, does not mean it is not stupid.

Fair enough, but why would you want so desperately to use a system that is less than ideal and if fact might have the opposite result from the one you are hoping for.


I have a friend who works with a SAR unit in Comox BC. I have just posed the following question to them" "Can you please ask your "SAR folks" (ideally pilot or spotter) what they would do if they were conducting a SAR Op over water at night and were illuminated by a laser. How would they react?"

I’ll just leave this right here. Looks like everything you said is wrong. Diver saved by shining a laser at a USCG helicopter. Oh and they didn’t turn around. So I stand by what I said. A rescue crew will not turn around when they spot a laser in the water.

Green laser leads to rescue of Oahu diver lost at sea

 

[Hoag]

I’ll just leave this right here. Looks like everything you said is wrong. Diver saved by shining a laser at a USCG helicopter. Oh and they didn’t turn around. So I stand by what I said. A rescue crew will not turn around when they spot a laser in the water.

Green laser leads to rescue of Oahu diver lost at sea

You were able to cite one example. Fair enough. That hardly means that everything I said was wrong, but hey, if you have a burning desire to be "the smartest guy in the room", then good for you. As I said to someone else, you do what you feel you need to do and I hope that you never have to find out for real if it was the right decision.

 

[JXT71]

That article reveals an embarrassing lack of reading comprehension. We can't educate people unwilling to learn.

 

[Diver below 83]

You were able to cite one example. Fair enough. That hardly means that everything I said was wrong, but hey, if you have a burning desire to be "the smartest guy in the room", then good for you. As I said to someone else, you do what you feel you need to do and I hope that you never have to find out for real if it was the right decision.

You claimed I couldn’t find a single example of a diver be rescued solely because of a laser pointer. I gave you exactly what you asked for. You were wrong. Simple as that. The reality is a laser pointer can and does work for rescue of a lost diver. That’s a fact. You all can keep moving the goal posts but two facts remains. US law allows for use of a laser during distress, and divers have been rescued because of laser pointers. Again I never said it’s the best method. In fact this thread has shown there are better options, but the fact remains a laser pointer is a usable tool. And just like the article I posted mentioned. That diver will NEVER dive without one again because his other equipment “failed”.

 

[Hoag]

You claimed I couldn’t find a single example of a diver be rescued solely because of a laser pointer. I gave you exactly what you asked for. You were wrong. Simple as that. The reality is a laser pointer can and does work for rescue of a lost diver. That’s a fact. You all can keep moving the goal posts but two facts remains. US law allows for use of a laser during distress, and divers have been rescued because of laser pointers. Again I never said it’s the best method. In fact this thread has shown there are better options, but the fact remains a laser pointer is a usable tool. And just like the article I posted mentioned. That diver will NEVER dive without one again because his other equipment “failed”.

Actually, I gave you credit for citing an example although nowhere in the article did it say that the SAR assets were airborne.

 

[tursiops]

Use your dive light.

A laser goes further, and the color attracts more attention.