Search and Rescue - Lasers and Signaling Devices

[Hoag]

I just sent an email to the Joint Rescue Coordination Centre In Victoria BC and asked:

I have a couple questions, directed primarily at the pilots or spotters:
1. If you were conducting a real world SAR mission and a pilot, a spotter or a SARTech was lased, what would be your most likely response?
2. Is a laser an effective method to alert airborne SAR assets to your location if lost at sea?
3. What would you recommend as an effective method for someone like a scuba diver to carry to alert airborne SAR assets (mirror, strobe, dive light, laser, etc)?

If/when I get a response, I will post it.

 

[Diver below 83]

“ I have a couple questions, directed primarily at the pilots or spotters:
1. If you were conducting a real world SAR mission and a pilot, a spotter or a SARTech was lased, what would be your most likely response?
2. Is a laser an effective method to alert airborne SAR assets to your location if lost at sea?
3. What would you recommend as an effective method for someone like a scuba diver to carry to alert airborne SAR assets (mirror, strobe, dive light, laser, etc)?”

The article posted previously about the diver rescued answered all these questions.

1. The helicopter was lasered by the lost diver. The helicopter was searching the wrong area too close to shore but was alerted to this by the divers green laser being shot at them from further out in sea. After being shot the diver was located and rescued.

2. Absolutely. Again the article clearly states the diver was rescued solely because of the green laser providing them with his location. US law allows the use of lasers for this exact reason.

3. Yes. All of the above. It’s been pointed out the more tools in your arsenal the better chance you have. The lost diver who was rescued had Multiple items but those items failed to provide his location. The laser was the last resort and work.

 

[SapphireMind]

You also shouldn’t put your hand on a hot stove but that has absolutely no relevance to what this thread is specifically talking about. The thread is about the use of lasers for a SAR situation. Nothing else. Again just because people keep moving the goal post and adding in information that has no relevance to this thread doesn’t add to the point. All it does is clutter real information more and make people more confused especially when your giving “your opinion”
Again as pointed out by the article posted where a diver was actually rescued, laser are and have been used to rescue divers. US law states it is ok to use for SAR. So again you adding in info about lasers in urban environments and planes isn’t relevant to a SAR for a diver.
I understand it’s “your opinion” that lasers aren’t good. That’s fine. Your more than welcome to your opinion, but factual information says they are ok to use, as been pointed out by the fact a diver was rescued because of said laser.
Thirdly the USCG officers confirmed the lasers aren’t visually through their NODS. So there is zero damage to them while using them at the same time, another bit of false information that’s been spread throughly in this thread.
The facts remain there hasn’t been one factual event of a SAR being called off for a diver because of a laser. Yet there is factual information of a diver being rescued because of a laser. So if you want to choose not to carry a tool that is accepted for SAR events that’s your choice, but there is no reason to keep spreading false information that it’s “bad” for a diver to use such a tool. The proof is in the rescue.

If we were talking about hot stoves though for SAR, it would be appropriate to talk about other issues with hot stoves.

It does not permanently damage their retinas, but how many different ways do I need to explain that permanent damage to the retina is not the only risk?

SAR would not be "called off", I disagree with that opinion. And I didn't say it was "bad" for a diver to use. There are better things for a diver to use that pose zero risk.

There are many people (once again, myself included prior to joining a flight team) that don't realize the dangers of a laser. So when people talk lasers, it's good to throw in a general PSA, especially when people like you are insisting that it is not true.

With what you have asserted, it would be totally cool to aim lasers at all the aircraft all the time. It won't permanently blind them, so it's fine.

 

[Doc Harry]

I have performed aerial searches of the open ocean. It is almost impossible to see anyone in the water. You really need some way to signal aircraft.

Lasers seem kinda dangerous to me. I use a signal mirror.

 

[wgw04024]

Probably one good thought here. If anyone is ever in the position of using a laser to signal a search plane it would be really good to stop using the laser when it turns towards you.

I was always under this understanding during the entire thread. It seems common sense.

 

[Hoag]

“ I have a couple questions, directed primarily at the pilots or spotters:
1. If you were conducting a real world SAR mission and a pilot, a spotter or a SARTech was lased, what would be your most likely response?
2. Is a laser an effective method to alert airborne SAR assets to your location if lost at sea?
3. What would you recommend as an effective method for someone like a scuba diver to carry to alert airborne SAR assets (mirror, strobe, dive light, laser, etc)?”

The article posted previously about the diver rescued answered all these questions.

1. The helicopter was lasered by the lost diver. The helicopter was searching the wrong area too close to shore but was alerted to this by the divers green laser being shot at them from further out in sea. After being shot the diver was located and rescued.

2. Absolutely. Again the article clearly states the diver was rescued solely because of the green laser providing them with his location. US law allows the use of lasers for this exact reason.

3. Yes. All of the above. It’s been pointed out the more tools in your arsenal the better chance you have. The lost diver who was rescued had Multiple items but those items failed to provide his location. The laser was the last resort and work.

Actually, it answered them in one specific case. I reached out to people who do SAR for a living as to what their professional opinion is. One example that worked out well does not definitively prove a thing.

Like I said before, if you want to carry a laser, do it.

 

[wgw04024]

That’s why I mentioned the part about floating in the ocean bobbing around. The reality is if any of us are in that situation the last thing we are thinking is “let me miss their eyes” your just praying the beam gets somewhere close to them. Having no stable platform to aim off of would make it a major crap shoot.

Going from memory but I believe I also brought up this point some 20 pages ago. If I'm going to be imo in a possible situation like Cameron may have been, I'm going to have my lights and a laser I think.

 

[fsardone]

Going from memory but I believe I also brought up this point some 20 pages ago. If I'm going to be imo in a possible situation like Cameron may have been, I'm going to have my lights and a laser I think.

During daytime in a sunny day laser will have very little effect unless you hit somebody directly in the eye ... and I very much doubt they will be able to determine the direction of the hit.
A signaling mirror on the other end will be:
more effective;
not subject to battery being dead;
not subject to flooding;
cheaper.

 

[wgw04024]

During daytime in a sunny day laser will have very little effect unless you hit somebody directly in the eye ... and I very much doubt they will be able to determine the direction of the hit.
A signaling mirror on the other end will be:
more effective;
not subject to battery being dead;
not subject to flooding;
cheaper.

Those are very good points. Mirror added!

 

[Hoag]

Those are very good points. Mirror added!

A mirror was suggested in post 18 as being a good method but ignored until now. I am genuinely happy that you now see the value of it.