Unknown Sea Story lob sinks

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At least in US diplomatic and military channels, the Egyptians are well known for disavowing even the most conspicuous facts when there's any chance of embarrassment. The obfuscation and denial are bewildering to most Western minds.

I got to see this during the Obama administration when he (POTUS) was committed to establishing a more stark transactional relationship than the Egyptian government was used to with America. President Obama had made up his mind to impose a precipitous demarche until his conditions were met. The complicating problem was the Egyptian government wasn't inclined to recognize the problems POTUS was pressuring his US Ambassador to address. In looking at the totality of Egyptian history from the 1700s forward, our counsel at the time was that we should be increasing engagement, not terminating it, based on the security situation. We prepared my boss at the time (now Secretary of Defense) to go salvage what we could (within our authorities) of the American government's relationship with the Egyptian government because of the strategic implications. We were successful.

I hope this (my cultural observation in the very first paragraph) doesn't spark internet outrage amongst hypersensitive cultural guardians. I'm simply sharing it as an observation, akin to something like "Americans have a skewed sense of proportion and tend towards excess" or "Germans can sometimes place an inordinate value on punctuality such they lose sight of a more important matter at hand".

My point?

I think it's reasonable to expect that Egypt as a whole will maintain a drift towards pretending something(s) didn't happen rather than taking broad corrective action, especially across a recreational activity. I suspect an industry wide campaign to modernize their safety practices will only happen if the central government makes it a priority. That very well may happen given Egypt's economic dependency on tourism but I haven't heard anything to make me optimistic. I'd rejoice at being proven wrong.

Please don't construe this as "no safe boat or crew can be found in Egypt" but instead that one has to work extra hard to ascertain if the business in mind takes the expected steps for safety that are routinely found in other countries.
 
The complicating problem was the Egyptian government wasn't inclined to recognize the problems POTUS was pressuring his US Ambassador to address.

In pretty much every Middle Eastern country refusal to recognize a problem does not mean that the matter cannot be negotiated/addressed. In most cases it only means that it would take a far more circumvoluted way and/or the involvement of a middle third party in the negotiations, plus a fair amount of time.
Failing to either understand or care about this way of doing things caused quite a few failures for the US diplomacy in the area.
 
Thank you for the informations. I decided not to go, as much as I love scuba diving in the red sea, I am a father of 3 and I don’t want take the risk…
Good for you! I know a couple widows and fatherless kids who lost their husbands/dads to fun but dangerous hobbies. Not saying you can't dive or have fun anymore, but there's definitely safer alternatives than a Red Sea LOB.
 
At least in US diplomatic and military channels, the Egyptians are well known for disavowing even the most conspicuous facts when there's any chance of embarrassment. The obfuscation and denial are bewildering to most Western minds.

I got to see this during the Obama administration when he (POTUS) was committed to establishing a more stark transactional relationship than the Egyptian government was used to with America. President Obama had made up his mind to impose a precipitous demarche until his conditions were met. The complicating problem was the Egyptian government wasn't inclined to recognize the problems POTUS was pressuring his US Ambassador to address. In looking at the totality of Egyptian history from the 1700s forward, our counsel at the time was that we should be increasing engagement, not terminating it, based on the security situation. We prepared my boss at the time (now Secretary of Defense) to go salvage what we could (within our authorities) of the American government's relationship with the Egyptian government because of the strategic implications. We were successful.

I hope this (my cultural observation in the very first paragraph) doesn't spark internet outrage amongst hypersensitive cultural guardians. I'm simply sharing it as an observation, akin to something like "Americans have a skewed sense of proportion and tend towards excess" or "Germans can sometimes place an inordinate value on punctuality such they lose sight of a more important matter at hand".

My point?

I think it's reasonable to expect that Egypt as a whole will maintain a drift towards pretending something(s) didn't happen rather than taking broad corrective action, especially across a recreational activity. I suspect an industry wide campaign to modernize their safety practices will only happen if the central government makes it a priority. That very well may happen given Egypt's economic dependency on tourism but I haven't heard anything to make me optimistic. I'd rejoice at being proven wrong.

Please don't construe this as "no safe boat or crew can be found in Egypt" but instead that one has to work extra hard to ascertain if the business in mind takes the expected steps for safety that are routinely found in other countries.
I don't really see it as a uniquely Egyptian problem, or specific to the Middle East. Officialdom in general tries to cover its collective butt and deflect responsibility, but when you have endemic corruption coupled with an authoritarian system that can just sweep things under the rug the rot tends to be pervasive.
 
Perhaps a small pony bottle with reg and diving mask. So you can deal with smoke and flooding.

IMO the first place to start is the aforementioned CDWS list of approved operators. I don't want to sound facetious but when a boat has fatal safety flaws many many issues can arise.
:rolleyes:
Can you fly with a small pony bottle...carry on or checked?
 
As far as I know, the Sea Story was the only boat out there because of the storm.
Well it is now.
Along with some of the crew and passengers.


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Can you fly with a small pony bottle...carry on or checked?

I have it done both ways (carryon / check-in) for my Spare Air, but you need to empty the bottle on the flight and refill it at the boat. If you bring it in carryon, you need to show TSA that the bottle is empty.

This is how I carry it to the plane (strap it on the side of my backpack.

IMG_2718.jpeg



Once you get on the boat, you have air filling adapter to get air from Scuba tank into your Spare Air.

IMG_3298.jpeg


Then you can use it to get out of smoky hallway or flooded cabin for 5 minutes.
 
So that would be someone's safety plan to dive on a liveaboard in Egypt? Fly with a pony bottle? That doesn't help you with a fire, or a sinking in really deep water, or a sinking where you are trapped. No thanks, I will dive on land or dive on a safe liveaboard. Is what you would see worth your life?? Is diving for a week for $1000 worth it? My life is worth far more than that. It's like diving with really cheap used rental gear.No thanks!!!!
 
So that would be someone's safety plan to dive on a liveaboard in Egypt? Fly with a pony bottle? That doesn't help you with a fire, or a sinking in really deep water, or a sinking where you are trapped. No thanks, I will dive on land or dive on a safe liveaboard. Is what you would see worth your life?? Is diving for a week for $1000 worth it? My life is worth far more than that. It's like diving with really cheap used rental gear.No thanks!!!!

I don’t go on any cheap liveaboards. I research them before hand. I’ve been on > 30 liveaboards for 19 years of diving and haven’t gotten into any boat accidents (knock on wood). However, when sh*t hit the fan, I’d make sure I’m ready (more ready than you are).

I bring my own gears too, other than scuba tank & dive weights.

Check out the kinds of liveaboards I have been on in 2023:
1. Infiniti in Cebu, Philippines
2. Agnes in Similan, Thailand
3, Amira in Forgotten Island, Indonesia
4. Ferox in Malpelo, Colombia
5. Agnes in Bali-Komodo, Indonesia
6. Nautilus Belle Amie, Sea of Cortez, Mexico
7. Blue Horizon, Maldives
8. Maldives Aggressor, Maldives

In 2024
1. Blue Manta in Raja Ampat, Indonesia
2. Infiniti in Tubbataha, Philippines
3. Mermaid 1 in Bali-Komodo, Indonesia
4. Damai 1 in Alor-Komodo, Indonesia

In 2025
1. White Manta in RA-Triton Bay, Indonesia
2. Maldives Master in Maldives
3. Ferox in Malpelo, Colombia
4. Blue Manta, Banda Sea, Indonesia
5. Nautilus Gallant Lady in Mag Bay, Mexico
6. Galapagos Master in Galapagos, Ecuador
7. Nautilus Belle Amie, Socorro, Mexico

You may notice Red Sea is not in the list.
 
Can you fly with a small pony bottle...carry on or checked?
I take my 19 cf pony and reg & spg on any dive trip anywhere. It's empty with the reg removed as required, then filled on arrival at the dive op.
Fly with a pony bottle? That doesn't help you with a fire, or a sinking in really deep water, or a sinking where you are trapped.
It could indeed help in smoke escaping a fire or in water if you can escape your cabin only in water. It'd be worth a try.
Well it is now.
Along with some of the crew and passengers.
Why did you post photos of guys?
 
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