Scubapro S600 adjustment procedure

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metajames

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I'm having some problems adjusting a S600 after servicing, I can't seem to find a balance where the lever stays tight against the diaphragm with the inhalation effort knob all the way out.

- During assembly I adjust the balance adjustment insert so that it is flush with the adjustment knob sleeve.
- Then I adjust the orifice during diaphragm assembly so that the lever just touches the diaphragm with the user adjustment knob all the way out
- With air on I adjust the orifice until free flow stops and then a little more, fine tune with the chamber adjustment

This results in a reg that has a inhalation effort of about 1.0 with the user knob all the way in and 0.5 with the knob all the way out. The lever is tight with no rattles when the knob is all the way in but rattles slightly with the knob out more than ~75%.

I also notice that when detuning from free flow the orifice will sometimes not fully seal after a breath causing a very slow hiss, I will continue to detune until this goes away. However, when it is in this zone the lever can still be a little loose.

Finally, when compared to my other S600 regulators the adjustment know on this particular reg will back out a full extra turn. Looking back at the service manual I don't see any kind of stop or retainer or o-ring that I may have missed.

How do I tune this reg so that there is no lever rattle? What have I missed? Any advice or procedures from someone who as experience with these regs is much appreciated.
 
If the LP seat is new and had time (cycles) to seat in and you have these problems I guess the orifice is damaged or the connection between orifice and LP seat is not exact parallel.
Check with a magnifying glass the rim of the orifice for nicks or other kinds of damages, look on the groove of the LP seat if one side seems to have been more grooved in than the other. Check the spring that it is straight and not inclined to one side a bit. Check the poppet base at the spring side for imperfections that might cause the spring to apply an uneven pressure on the poppet.

Check the lever 'legs' that they are parallel and not bend.

My first guess is the orifice.......

Good luck.
 
I did check the orifice by running my finger along the lip feeling for imperfections but did not feel any. Did not look under magnification but will check that next. I did check for proper alignment but it all looks good. I did however replace the LP seat with a new one, is this just a matter of break in so that orifice sets a groove?

btw: what is the recommended way to remove the orifice from the air barrel? After backing it out completely the o-ring holds it in the tube and it makes me nervous to push it from the other side due to risk of damaging it.

thanks for the tips.
 
I use one of my favorite tools, a round cheap sushi take-out type chopstick, to push the orifice out. Is your orifice plastic or metal? If it's plastic, consider getting a metal one. I have had much better luck tuning 2nd stages with the metal orifice.

Sometimes the spring goes bad and results in inconsistent tuning; set it up with no flow, breathe a couple of times, it flows slightly, etc. So you could try a new spring. I don't know what that would do about the lever height, but if the new spring is stronger, I guess your orifice adjustment could leave the lever a bit higher.

Good luck with it!
 
Without implying that you don't already know most of this, I have a couple of comments re: your order of tuning:

- During assembly I adjust the balance adjustment insert so that it is flush with the adjustment knob sleeve.
- Then I adjust the orifice during diaphragm assembly so that the lever just touches the diaphragm with the user adjustment knob all the way out

I'm OK with your first statement, but the second has me a little confused.
In the S600, assuming the balance chamber adjustment knob and spring is not so far out that it's not exerting any force against the poppet, the ONLY determinant of lever height is the position of the orifice. The adjustment knob then only affects cracking effort.
If you can adjust the lever so it's TOO high before the orifice separates from the new seat, then you'll actually need to bend your lever (tough to do without the lever height tool). Otherwise, the only way to drop the lever is to screw in the orifice, which will not allow you minimum cracking effort.
With a new seat, it's possible for it to be just slightly too high, because it hasn't set a groove in the seat yet. It's common for a perfectly adjusted new seat regulator to start leaking a couple of weeks later, as the orifice sits on the seat and effectively lessens the sealing pressure. 1/12 to 1/4 turn in on the orifice usually fixes it. That's why techs will "detune" your reg 1/12 turn (1 hour on the clock), after inserting a new seat, to make up for that future change. I'm assuming you know this and am really writing for others reading this post. In your case, the only real direction the lever should go is down. At it's highest point, set the diaphragm in place and see how much tapping room you have. If it's less than 1/32", then the diaphragm will probably cause the reg to freeflow when you screw down the case. If there's more than a little play, then your lever needs rebending, or you'll never seal without lots of slop.

A couple of questions:
1) When you replaced the seat, are you SURE it's absolutely flat where it tucks into the white poppet? That could be one cause of variable sealing after multiple adjustments. Are you sure the poppet is installed with the lever lugs in the correct orientation? (Sorry if these are stupid questions)
2) When you tuned it, did you remember to depress the lever/purge button as you adjusted cracking effort? If not, you may have cut the seat a little, again leading to variable leaks.
Since I'm assuming that you didn't have an issue with #1 or #2, then lever height corresponds to orifice position against the seat. The further in the orifice is screwed, the lower/sloppier the lever gets.

With the diaphragm off, and the adjustment knob screwed in halfway or more (to ensure you have firm spring pressure against the poppet), I would back out the orifice a little at a time (depressing the lever with each 1/8-1/4 of a turn), until lever height reaches its maximum, then back in 1/12 turn. Then with the LP hose off, blow thru the hose fitting. Did it seal to lung pressure? If not, despite firm spring pressure from the adjustment knob, add in 1/12 turn at a time until it seals. Then do a quick check of lever height versus the diaphragm as above.
If, with firm spring pressure the orifice doesn't seal within 1/4 turn, then you either have a leak at the orifice o-ring, a leak at the orifice knife edge, or a leak at the seat from malposition, a cut or a defect. Those are the ONLY possibilities. The orifice o-ring is a common one for leaks that just can't get diagnosed.

If you can seal to lung pressure with 1/12 to 1/4 of a turn in on the orifice, start backing off on the adjustment knob while watching the lever. If it drops at ANY time before you reach fully screwed out, then you have two possibilities: 1) either the spring is weak or short (or effectively short because its ends are in worn grooves in the plastic balance chamber or the poppet). 2) I think the more likely cause of the whole lever issue might be that the little lugs on the white poppet that engage the tabs are worn or dinged. The metal lever is harder than the plastic poppet, and a lot of mechanical advantage is applied over and over on that one spot. See if you can see a ding in the lugs on the duro poppet. If so, your lever will never get as high as it could otherwise, even with the orifice barely touching. A new poppet's an easy $17 replacement on EBay.

If you can back out on the adjustment knob without having the lever drop at all, then you can fine-tune the cracking effort by attaching your LP hose and applying the full 135psi. You'll leak for sure after just testing to lung effort, but that should disappear within 1/2 turn of the orifice. Once sealed at IP, you can return to your adjustment knob. I wouldn't be unhappy with tiny free-flow fully screwed out, since that is one way you can increase the longevity of your seat in between dives, the way Sherwood recommends for their adjustables. In any case, going for 0.5" cracking effort is more than the case geometry of that regulator can allow. Sure, it'll breathe with a whisper horizontally, but it will free-flow slightly whenever you're looking down (like, most of the time). That case won't permit less than about 0.8" of cracking effort and not free flow in at least some positions.

Bottom line? I'm with halo, that if it's not an actual leak at the orifice, seat or o-ring, it's a spring issue. Either an actual spring weakness/shortening, or effectively a spring issue due to balance chamber or poppet lug wear. If it is a tiny ding in the plastic orifice, you can even find an old metal one and dress it with 4,000 to 8,000 grit Micro-mesh. You'll lose the chrome on the knife edge and make it more susceptible to corrosion, but it will seal like a dream.

To push that orifice out, there is a TINY ledge inside. 20130616_092213.jpg
It reduces the diameter just below 3/16", so a 3/16" dowel from the hardware store will catch perfectly without touching the knife edge itself. The actual max diameter of your homemade push tool is 0.19"/4.85mm without touching the knife edge.
20130616_091900.jpg


Good luck!
 
btw: what is the recommended way to remove the orifice from the air barrel? After backing it out completely the o-ring holds it in the tube and it makes me nervous to push it from the other side due to risk of damaging it.

thanks for the tips.
the method that I have picked from a tech is to use the peterbuild brass pick - the one that has a round tip. The shape of the tip is such that when you insert it into the orifice it touches it from the inside and does not even touch the knife edge. that makes it impossible to scratch the edge. I got my ser from scubatools
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/teric/

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