SCUBAPRO New parts for life program

[50Fathom]

The thing is you need to keep it in mint or very very good condition a used reg in so so condition isn't going to be worth much unless someone significant owned it or is super rare. Which brings back the question, of why pay more for something in the hope that it's actually going to be worth something later and you need to baby it...?

Because you are a very rare person, a collector of regs.

I used to have the collector mentality with a lot of things, but I have really moved away from it.

I am also very into motorcycles and I have a couple of vintage Hondas that are quite rare and desirable, one of which is a "milestone" in motorcycling circles and is one of the few old bikes actually appreciating in value with each passing year.

And I ride the snot out of each one. Soichiro Honda intended the machines to be ridden and used. Not stared at. Ones I couldn't ride in good conscience, I sold.

My brother bought a 1974 Honda that had 28 original miles on it. He was just tickled. Then he realized the entire value of the machine was in the fact that it was literally a time-capsule museum-piece and he could never use it without fear of destroying the value. So he sold it to a collector. He effectively owned a 1:1 scale model of a Honda motorcycle, and that wasn't his gig. Nor mine.

I am also into Porsches. Every year, the Porsche Club of America, (PCA), holds the "Porsche Parade", which is a nationwide gathering of Porsche fans. One year, in the late 1990s, near the end of his life, Ferry Porsche was attending a Parade and he was shown a entire field of Porsches lined up for the "Concours de Elegance", which is a serious car show where cars are graded on appearance, originality, and they must be maintained to absolute perfection. Low-miles and pampering is the key in the Concours. These guys park their cars on top of mirrors so they can see how clean the underside is without having to get on the ground. Seriously.

Anyhow, Ferry Porsche was shown a field of these immaculate machines and was asked what he thought about it. Wasn't he proud to see his creations so lovingly cared for by their owners?

His reply? That it made him quite sad. "Our cars are meant to be driven," he said, "not polished."

I agree with that. I drive the piss outta mine.

Regarding scuba gear, I have some "limited edition" or "rare" pieces of gear, and I dive the hell out of them. "Rarity", "scarcity", "collectability" or "value down the road" is a non-issue to me. If I break or bugger it up, I'll fix it, and drive on. If it's not fixable, I'll get something else.

 

[dmoore19]

I have a rubber ducky collection.

 

[Dr. Lecter]

Beav, you're right that reg collectors are rare people--i.e., there aren't many of them. A few people makes for a thin market, where volume and price can change rapidly and investments can become illiquid overnight. Thin markets are lousy places to try and get consistent value for your investments. Know what else are limited edition and collectable? Mountain Dew flavors and painted ceramic plates.

I hope you're heavily invested in both.

 

[akeegan2]

Yes, they still have the Life Time Warranty.

IMO, the Scubapro warranty and the " New " Free Parts for Life program is a better deal.

As I stated above, you still have the Life Time Warranty.

Moreover, you can have your Scubapro reg. serviced once a year and receive Free parts or once every two years and receive Free parts.

Atomic makes excellent regs., but no free parts.

I am sure you will enjoy your new reg.

Have FUN diving!

Dear beaverdivers,

That’s not quite what I hear from my LDS. He said there was no SP lifetime parts anymore since my MK25/S600 was not purchased as a package. Other than new divers and bankers, who buys packages? Not me, anyway. My LDS graciously returned my month-old MK25/S600 reg (which he did not recommend in the first place), and put me into an Atomic Z2X. And saved me a bunch of money to boot, plus it's a beautiful piece of engineering. I went from from top of the line to bottom of the line and yet I’m very pleased with my choice.

IMHO, the reason Atomic became so great so quickly is because a couple of genius SP engineers formed Atomics 15 years ago when SP, (read Johnson Outdoors Living, LLC), wouldn’t consider their innovating engineering suggestions. So they started Atomic with a couple of patented regulator innovations and the rest is history. You know the story.

Please note the following excerpt from SP’s website:

SCUBAPRO warrants to the original consumer purchaser that, for the period of one year from date of purchase, each SCUBAPRO product component not otherwise warranted, and each SCUBAPRO replacement part, purchased from and authorized SCUBAPRO dealer will be free from defects in materials and workmanship under normal use and with reasonable maintenance.

The last part sounds like a gotcha to me. The warranty then goes on for several paragraphs with no mention of lifetime parts of lifetime warranty. The whole SP warranty sounds like a fine piece of disambiguation to me. I guess I just don’t trust SP anymore; I suspect more onerous warranty changes are coming.

Now please note the following excerpts from Atomic’s website:

The Atomic Limited Lifetime Warranty is not contingent on proof of annual service.

Atomic Aquatics warrants this regulator against defects in materials and workmanship for the lifetime of the original owner.

That’s all I need to know.

Regards,
akeegan2

---------- Post added November 21st, 2012 at 03:37 AM ----------

You can't be right about that, because I heard gold is doing really well and this awesome investment reg has 24K GOLD on it!

Beav, can I maybe invest in an ETF or other fractional ownership scheme for such a reg? Seems risky and expensive to buy it outright and then store it myself...I only have a lowly gear locker, and not a proper investment gear vault.

You crack me up sometimes.

 

[Six2Life]

IMHO, the reason Atomic became so great so quickly is because a couple of genius SP engineers formed Atomics 15 years ago when SP, (read Johnson Outdoors Living, LLC), wouldn’t consider their innovating engineering suggestions. So they started Atomic with a couple of patented regulator innovations and the rest is history. You know the story.

Could someone please clue me in to what is so innovative about Atomic regs? I mean, I'll agree that their customer service and warranty appear to be head and shoulders above SP but I don't see a whole lot of innovation in their reg designs. (this isn't neccessarily a bad thing) When I look at an Atomic 1st stage I see a MK10plus with a MK20 bushing system thrown in. So the foundation for the 1st stage design is what, 30 years old? The 2nds look to be the same old plastic fantastic, balanced adjustable, barrel poppet design that everybody else sells with a couple of useless (at best) marketing gimmicks thrown in.

Were these "genius SP engineers" around in the late 70's/early 80's when the real reg innovating was going on at SP with the coaxial regs? If so, why didn't they base their Atomic copies on those designs which actually did provide an increase in performance?

 

[SangP]

Could someone please clue me in to what is so innovative about Atomic regs? I mean, I'll agree that their customer service and warranty appear to be head and shoulders above SP but I don't see a whole lot of innovation in their reg designs. (this isn't neccessarily a bad thing) When I look at an Atomic 1st stage I see a MK10plus with a MK20 bushing system thrown in. So the foundation for the 1st stage design is what, 30 years old? The 2nds look to be the same old plastic fantastic, balanced adjustable, barrel poppet design that everybody else sells with a couple of useless (at best) marketing gimmicks thrown in.

Were these "genius SP engineers" around in the late 70's/early 80's when the real reg innovating was going on at SP with the coaxial regs? If so, why didn't they base their Atomic copies on those designs which actually did provide an increase in performance?

I think that its cus their stuff works as it's suppose to. No changes in cosmetic designs every couple of years, no more replacement of good regs for something that needs more maintenance etc etc.

I'm not exactly a fan of aqualung but at least most of there regs share the same components that have been around for years n years.

 

[Six2Life]

My G250vs can do it, as can my G250 Crystals, (which I think came out in the mid-late 1990s?).

I have a pair of G250s from about 1991 or so, the age of which I can only guess on, since they have the teeny-weeny venturi switch and one has a teal diaphragm and button and one has a red diaphragm and button, and the red and teal colors were early 1990s. Anyhow, they cannot do it.

So I'll deduce that somewhere between 1993 (when the colored diaphragms were discontinued), and the Crystal model, (1996-97?) they got the lock feature.

I think the telltale sign that indicates the purge lock is having a purge button with the somewhat convex rubberized coating. The Crystals, HP's, V's, and some of the transitory G250's have this. All of the classic G250's I have seen have the older, flat-faced purge button which would indicate no purge lock.

 

[ams511]

Please note the following excerpt from SP’s website:

SCUBAPRO warrants to the original consumer purchaser that, for the period of one year from date of purchase, each SCUBAPRO product component not otherwise warranted, and each SCUBAPRO replacement part, purchased from and authorized SCUBAPRO dealer will be free from defects in materials and workmanship under normal use and with reasonable maintenance.

The last part sounds like a gotcha to me. The warranty then goes on for several paragraphs with no mention of lifetime parts of lifetime warranty. The whole SP warranty sounds like a fine piece of disambiguation to me. I guess I just don’t trust SP anymore; I suspect more onerous warranty changes are coming.

Regards,
akeegan2

I am not a huge fan of "The Beav", but as a Scubapro dealer I would assume he knows their warranty policy. What you posted does not contradict what he said. I bolded the words "not otherwise warranted" which means that only items not separately warranted are covered by a 1 year warranty. Regulators are could be separately warranted but I agree with you the policy on their website is not clear. Subgear regulators are warranted for 30 years so it makes no sense for Scubapro regulators to be warranted for only 1 year.

---------- Post added November 21st, 2012 at 01:16 PM ----------

Beav, you're right that reg collectors are rare people--i.e., there aren't many of them. A few people makes for a thin market, where volume and price can change rapidly and investments can become illiquid overnight. Thin markets are lousy places to try and get consistent value for your investments.

This is true, who can forget the baseball card craze and the Beanie Baby craze. The only people who really made out was the manufacturers.

---------- Post added November 21st, 2012 at 01:33 PM ----------

halocline if you buy a 50th anniversary Gold MK25/S600, then I might give you Free Parts for Life.

This reg. is a beauty, it will be a collector's item. It is a very limited edition.

What do you think?

Is this your Black Friday deal?

 

[akeegan2]

Subgear regulators are warranted for 30 years so it makes no sense for Scubapro regulators to be warranted for only 1 year.

Dear ams511,

This pretty much expresses my view on SP's new "direction." Please don't misunderstand; I am trying hard not to bash SCUBAPRO. I think SCUBAPRO is superb equipment. I just think Johnson Outdoors Living, LLC, has ruined them. and I think the next year or two will be a watershed moment for SP. I still have some SP equipment; have for years. I just hope they don't turn into AMF Harleys.

SCUBAPRO since 1982, Atomic since 2012, can't wait to what I'm buying in 2042.

Regards,
akeegan2

 

[halocline]

Could someone please clue me in to what is so innovative about Atomic regs? I mean, I'll agree that their customer service and warranty appear to be head and shoulders above SP but I don't see a whole lot of innovation in their reg designs. (this isn't neccessarily a bad thing) When I look at an Atomic 1st stage I see a MK10plus with a MK20 bushing system thrown in. So the foundation for the 1st stage design is what, 30 years old? The 2nds look to be the same old plastic fantastic, balanced adjustable, barrel poppet design that everybody else sells with a couple of useless (at best) marketing gimmicks thrown in.

Were these "genius SP engineers" around in the late 70's/early 80's when the real reg innovating was going on at SP with the coaxial regs? If so, why didn't they base their Atomic copies on those designs which actually did provide an increase in performance?

This is pretty much how I feel; atomic does throw in a few exotic metal parts (titanium levers, etc) but basically they're over engineered SPs. It was smart of them to go back to the cold water system of packing the first stage ambient chamber, but they could have done a lot better with the 2nd stages. None of this really matters, though, all the regs are so far above what's actually needed or even perceived by 99% of divers, that often it does come down to customer service and of course, the Beav's specialty, narcissistic hype.

It is really funny how much atomic 1st stages look like SPEC booted MK10s.