Scubaboard Book: will you contribute?

[alcina]

Call me crazy, but I bet there would still be a number of people willing to donate their photos... hell... if I had a proper setup I'd be offering my photos... even if profits went to scubaboard, as I believe scubaboard is a non-profit entity, and thus, why should I be greedy about it all. On the plus side, I get my photos developed and put in a pretty book -- sounds like a good deal to me.

Perhaps some will want money, but the qustion is, are there enough people, with good photos, willing to give them up for free.
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- ChillyWaters

Hmmm....I am not sure about the non-profit thing, you'd have to ask NetDoc.

Also, compensation for photographers is a huge issue and probably should be it's own thread. I will say that photographers (artists, writers, builders, designers etc) should not give their work away without some sort of recompse. Remember there are those out there trying to make a living and if the market gets flooded with freebies why would any publisher pay? And your equipment, time, diving etc are all worth something - payment forms vary from use to use as do the amounts.

If anyone does want to explore this area, please start a thread and we'll all weigh in

 

[Mike Veitch]

Is this where i chime in as one of those who is trying to make a living from photography and video?

I don't give my stuff away or pay to have it published. So i won't want to be included in the book. And i am sure there are others on the board who would feel the same (alcina obviously)

HOwever, for those out there who take underwater photos as just a fun hobby, it would be great for them to have their stuff published in a nice book. Its a good idea i think. But the logistics of doing it are huge and the more people involved the more problems arise.

Good luck with the endeavour, i hope it pans out

 

[ChillyWaters]

Its a good idea i think. But the logistics of doing it are huge and the more people involved the more problems arise.

You're probably very right in this regard! But some people take up such projects for "fun." I wouldn't, but some people do. And if they do, I'll put a few bucks down for a copy.

So far we haven't heard of many volunteers come forth either

- ChillyWaters

 

[Scubatooth]

i started a whole long response but i will make it short.

if my images are being used in a commerical manner, i expect to be compensated at the market rate for the images size, useage, and a few other factors for the fee. i may be a student(and aspiring pro) but i still put out a high quality of work that im proud of and that even is better then some professionals in my area(much to there shagrin(sp?)). I worked hard to get my equipment and to maintain it and im not going to give away my hard work(and $$$) for someone else to make a buck off of.


also this "book" idea sounds alot like alot of "photo contests" and all i see it is as a great way for a individaul or group to collect a big volume of free stock images where they can take them from the owner and do what ever they want and make money of it without giving ny compensation to the person who actually did the work and spent the money on the equipment just to give it away.

In closing if you feel like you would like to give your images to something like this i would be more then willing to accept your digtal images, raw files, negatives, slides, etc and edit them my self and make money off them and give nothing to you. if this is what you want PM me for arrangements.


FWIW

Tooth

PS. its intresting to see that mjh posted some prices on what it would cost and i just called a friend who is in the middle of putting togther a book he has been working on and those costs are raising some flags to him. hes using "my publisher" for his book so that he can do small qty runs and its only costing about 60-75% of mjhs quote for getting them done, so to me this is just adding to my suspision that someone is still making a buck off this even though those prices are still ball park for publishing these days

 

[alcina]

Whoa here, guys.

First, mypublisher is great, but it is NOT high professional quality. I had a book done for my Gma for Xmas and it was lovely, but you couldn't sell it in Barnes & Noble etc.

Second, the coffee-table book idea may have been just as several have mentioned: a fun way for a group of people to put some shots together for their own pleasure. The print run would be a finite amount only and presumably most of those bought would be by the photographer to give to friends/family etc. Kind of like my Publisher, but on a bigger scale and with other people's work, too. The issues of profit and compensation and sales and advertising etc are all beyond where this thread started, I think.

Third, there are a myriad of problems getting something like this off the ground. I brought up only one of numerous points that will need to be considered before a project of this sort can be announced. I am sure those thinking about this project will have a whole bunch more information as things get under way.

Fourth, there are going to be lots of people who might like this idea and so those people I am sure will step forward and offer their images and input. For those who are not interested, please try not to be aggressive - I'd hate to see people turned off because other people were against the whole thing.

What I would also hate, and why I brought it up, is for people to submit images without thinking it all through and without knowing exactly how those images would be used. I hope that those both for and not-so for this project can put their ideas across so everyone can make good, informed decisions and the organizers can have an easier time putting the project together.

Does that make sense? I hope so

BTW - I remain firmly neither for or not so for...just here to throw out things that have come up in regards to similar projects...

 

[SeaYoda]

I can speak from the "do not even have a strobe because it's not in my budget" amateur department.
1. If by giving my images to the project the livelihood of those who make a living as photographers was hurt I would not participate. Since I have limited photo equipment, I get limited results. I don't think my pics could compare with the pro's, but if someone does, thanks and I'll stick to my original statement.
2. If I felt that there was misrepresentation by the ones who put the project together I would not participate. I have no reason to think mjh is trying to do anything other than what was stated - put a book together. We could all help if we knew of a cheaper, faster, easier way by offering suggestions for the project. If this book had anything to do with ScubaBoard I would imagine the powers that be would need to be involved and see that it was legitimate.
3. Compensation for amateurs is still needed but will never equal the pro's. I participated in the Screen Saver "contest" here and they offered a copy of the saver and a mug (BTW: only have half the payment so far ). I hope people support the board by buying a copy and that is why I accepted the amount of compensation that I did.
4. I will lend my pics to causes that I believe in and not to those that I don't care for. I might even do it for free if the cause was right. I'm an adult and can make the choice. I'll make mistakes as I go but my heart is in the right place. The purpose of this book would need to be clarified before I would join in. The express use of the photos would have to be stated. This would slow the possibility of "flooding the market with stock photos".
5. I would never give my "Cover shot" picture away for less than what its worth. If I ever get one of those shots it will not leave my possession or be posted on the web without proper compensation.
6. I would love to have my work published and be able to show my friends that I'm in a book. It's just fun for a rookie like me. If it does no harm, why all the fuss. Just do it right and enjoy participating or not participating whichever you choose. As for me, Life is too short so I think I'll go diving and take some pictures.

 

[alcina]

well spoken SeaYoda

BTW #3 and #4 reinforce the idea that payments vary from use to use, photographer to photographer and form to form (ie money, a mug etc)

 

[mjh]

Since this is just mental gymnastics at this point, still coming from a “not for profit” perspective. Rather than choose who “gets in” you could set it up that everyone gets 1 picture published, but of course they must be required to buy one book each. Submit pictures w/money order.

Set 5 categories. Each person can only submit 2 pictures for 2 of the 5 categories, their choice. Only one picture will be chosen from each submitter.

Assume 500 people submit photos = 1000 photos ½ are chosen = minimum of 500 pages. Cost per Page about US$.20. Break it into 2 volumes of 250 pages x $.20 = $50/book.

 

[mjh]

FYI, I have brought this subject at Wetpixel, the following is an edited version of my post there.

First let me say, I feel a little stupid delving into this subject. Just started in the hobby over a yr ago and still figuring out f-stops and apertures. I know shipping, production, pricing in China and nothing about publishing. My company has saved about 75% by moving our printing to Shanghai and the quality has been excellent.

The original idea was not an Underwater Photography Opus. Just a logical expansion of this site, give members something to bore friends and family with. Simple introduction; maybe a paragraph or two at the start of each section, list camera settings, maybe a one liner from the photographer. Just get it done. Everyone sees the costs, everyone gets one picture in. People share (meaning volunteer to take on) the workload, don’t get bogged down in too much detail. Take the pictures as they come (no editing) as long as they meet some minimal standard. I naively assumed people would Photo Shop their own pics and send them in an email to “volunteer editors” who are just making sure they are in the right format and meet the pre-ordained standard.

My concern is once you add “profit” into the equation things can get messy. There are many options dealing with this issue. I would like to see it stay “non profit”; funds from copies that are sold beyond the minimum needed to cover cost could go into an account to pay for future versions free to all contributors. Or possibly go to an Ocean Conservation Group. Contributors agree they loose all rights to pics that go in book. There are probably enough of us amateurs that would just love to see a photo of ours in a real book.

On a side note, with more and more “amateurs” with better quality rigs, taking increasingly amazing photos I think collaborative projects like this are going to become more common. IMHO the line between Pros and Amateurs is going to continue to blur over the coming yrs.

Main thing is to get the workflow figured out and get things started. Here are some general ideas, feel free to add your own….

1.Choose categories maybe 5-6. What categories??
2.Come up with theme, general look; agree to some text, get something arranged you can just “plug photos into”. Maybe someone has a book we could model ours after?
3.People volunteer to review each category, to insure pictures meet minimal standard. Possibly sub sort them into some “theme” within the category
4.Set basic guidelines for picture submission, format, camera settings, maybe one line about picture etc…
5.Allow people to submit 2 (some limited number) pictures total, their choice of categories. Each week open a category for picture submission.
6.Editors review pics, organize their category, and submit to “Master Editor”

Have no clue if any of this would work. But some of you do…

 

[alcina]

"Master Editor"

I like that


I'd take out that photographers lose their rights to submitted photos. The photos should, IMHO, be authorised for a single, non-exclusive use.