Scuba training costs..........

[BHB ScubaTroll]

Yes, but apart from George W. Bush, do you know any others?

Ooo, nice attempt at a drive by swipe... but, no dice.

Unlike some other countries, in the USA, when the President goes on vacation it means his office is in that location. A working vacation as it were.

If you really think the leader of this nation could pass his duties on to staff for an extended time, you are a victim of your own education/propaganda system

Or, as the president might say, "... yur own feebledness" - Lord I love those Bushisms and the blood pressure they raise in others

 

[Ron Brandt]

Hey Ron, the first paragraph was for you, the balance was a general statement to everyone

My gut tells me you know what you're doing.

Thanks !!!! I should write the book now ...
Really, I do have a master plan and I'm having a great time right now !!!!

Ron

 

[Brian1968]

Hey Ron, .........

My gut tells me you know what you're doing.

He does.

(And the rest of this is pointless text to kill the "15 character bug")

 

[TheFoggyMask]

They give classes away so cheaply because they have no intention of teaching you anything.

 

[beach89]

I think it is a typical price in Mid-West. Everything related with the water is high price.

I live right on the water. I'm 5 minutes from one of the largest freshwater lakes in the world. And there's 5 scuba shops within an hour of me. I still don't get why they charge so much.

 

[SharkRider]

$99.00 lessons are usually taught by putrid Instuctors at putridly run shops

$199.00 lessons are usually taught by poor instructors at poorly run shops

$299.00 lessons are usually taught by fair instructors at fairly decent shops who give you a little extra bang for the buck

$399.00 lessons are usually taught by good instructors at well run shops and include upgraded lessons that go beyond the norm

$499.00 lessons are usually taught by excellent instructors at fantastic shops that throw things in that other shops wouldn't even think of

$599.00+ lessons are usually private lessons where you get personalized attention that goes above and beyond. The private lessons I teach prepare you with knowledge others only get by taking additional classes and shelling out hundreds of more dollars. They also come with an offer to dive with my students anytime and a phone number to call anytime with questions, suggestions etc...

Most $99 - $299 stop diving right after taking the class and usually have no idea what they're doing once they're handed a c-card.... $399.00 and up usually continue in the sport for a while.... are knowledgeable and comfortable in the water

So as I said... you get what you pay for...

Does that help?

 

[owlbill]

Probably so they can stay in business. Most people are not buying gear like they used to. "Take a class, get the card, then dive as cheap as possible" seems to be the mentality of most. The ones that are not serious about this activity are the ones that shops seem to want to attract. Wasted effort IMHO. I would rather teach 15-20 students all year, if they were all serious, actually dove after the course, and purchased gear (not just the snorkel gear).

Just to add to this, golf lessons locally, for a group of up to 6 people, is $24 bucks per hour, but you pay for 4 hours up front. Hmmm, seems a lot better that the 9 bucks an hour people here pay for scuba training.

 

[Ron Brandt]

I live right on the water. I'm 5 minutes from one of the largest freshwater lakes in the world. And there's 5 scuba shops within an hour of me. I still don't get why they charge so much.

Please refer to my previous post on shop operational costs....those shops probably have boats as well to maintain.... It costs lots money to start a scuba shop....

Ron

 

[GDI]

I can see you took my original post from quite a different view point

You are right I did take it in a different direction. I used your example of what many times goes on with dive shops and their instructors. My intent was not personal but I will respond as you countered as if it were. I was only using the $99 class as an example. The consumer does not know the quality of instruction they would receive, but will pay the cheapest they can often not looking any further then getting themselves ready for that cruise.

Guess you missed that part where I said gross a few times

Yes I know you stated gross amounts but then gross is usually more then NET isn't it?

If you claim mailings and shippings, water, sewage, garbage... and a number of other items listed here as those used by dive students during training class... well, ok

Somebody has to pay for this stuff or the LDS will not stay in business. The better dive shops separate the training class costs away from their retail costs and their other overhead. This way they can see where their best profit margins are, its called resource coding. Equipment sales usually has the better margins. So if a shop is willing to take a loss on training costs, it is hoping to make it up in retail equipment sales, that is their business. My attitude is that equipment retail and training retail need to be monitored separately. Make a dollar off both don't use one to hopefully offset the other.

Again, guess you missed that part about gross income... ($99-$50 = $49 gross)
Gross Income - And, if you are spending only 10 hours teaching, I wouldn't want to be a part of that class

Again NET. What is the shop making here? The book, tables, PIC and related materials for a class per student cost more than $49 - I see a loss here. But then I believe that the LDS is attempting to make it up on Equipment sales. What if the Student has their equipment already? I have seen this and this is where the LDS quite often becomes irate - Why? because they just took a lost, maybe they are hoping for some other equipment sales. Overhead overhead overhead, cares not about the student.

10 hours was just an example I picked Not by what I teach. yet given the apparent skill levels of many divers I sometimes think that is all they received for their class dives included.

Ah, the independant instructor... but, not independant.

Yes independant I contract my services to LDS for classes their staff cannot teach or are unavailable. I also teach separately from them for most of my instruction. I don't rent their equipment, I don't get air fills from them. The only thing I am missing from what they have is retail equipment to sell and a store front. Can I sell equipment? YES because I sell theirs for them and with no commission to their students and customers, they like that. This year alone I certified more then 100 OW students not including the AOW, Cavern, Cave, Adv Nitrox /Deco classes, DAN O2, CPR, Dive trips. etc. No more than 8 OW students were from LDS's, Yes Independant, Owner Genesis Diving Institute of Florida

And yet, there are shops making money and paying employees.... That's a horrible economic idea?[?QUOTE]

Yes there are and some better than others, What do they do differently? Are they Diversified in what they sell? Do they have owners who hold other jobs????

Which is what I would expect if for "Independant Instructors"

You didn't clarify what it is that you expect of an independant Instructor

If the comsumer is willing to pay
Driven by supply and demand and DEAD WRONG! The cost for classes are set by what the largest number of consumers are willing to pay for a given service
Again, set by what the consumer is willing to pay for your service

(I assume this paragraph relates to the instructor)

You make it sound like they have a choice. Oh, but they do. Adapt, instruct or find another way to make income.
Consumer sets the price
Absolutely!!!!

Course fees are set by competition to get the consumer and yes what the local market will bear. A $99 class down in Tampa Florida would be a $400 class in upper state NY. The average consumer, who is unknowing of what to expect in quality (of instruction) pays based on this competition, Course fees are set by the LDS's. That is why there is such a difference in one LDS to another. . What all is included in that $99 class and what is paid for extra? By the time it is over the amounts from one LDS to another may not vary to much. OK I'll give it to you the consumer sets the fees.A classic example of where LDS take a loss with the intent to make it up else where is in air fills. The $4-6.00 air fill gets them in the store, now they can sell them something, hopefully. The cost for an airfill if sold as a retail item should be about $15.00 but comptetition doesn't allow this. The LDS sets the cost consumers expect this now and it is standard

The instructors want to teach because they love diving and the LDS take advantage of this. Did you not say you were an Instructor once? And you fell into this right?. At one time I did as well and I broke away from it. The LDS's want me to teach they pay me my fee. I have adapted.

You are right. I chose to support my family in a different way...

Admirable nothing wrong with that, I did the same thing and now I can do this

but, it WAS a nice attempt at insulting me that failed horribly

My intent was not to insult you, it was to look at this $99 class from a different perspective of which I did and apparently I did not fail. I have experienced and have seen others go through this $99 class thing. It is a common thread in the diving industry. Just like when the equipment sales fall off, the instructors' take the hit and have to pull teeth to get even the little pay that is owed to them

I should have paid for this and the entertainment expenses. It was my mini vacation!
I am sure the LDS made money on the trip and I would expect it. But, they could have made more if they hadn't offered me that perk.
Wow, If I could have done this on my own, it wouldn't be a perk.
One man's administration fee is another man's vacation

You still paid for it but Ok it was a nice incentive to offer you the discounted seat and yes they did make money. Not all LDS's will do this

Bingo!!!
As an independant instructor, you SHOULD be paying for your diving.
If there is only one student, most shops cancel the class unless that student wants to pay for individual instruction (You did say you are currently an instructor)
Utopia

Yes I am currently an instructor and I DON'T pay for "MY" diving its in the course fee. If I can make a dollar free and clear after all instruction from just one student then I priced right in this competitive market. Many a LDS say I can't do it, there is no way, But I do

Look at that! An example of the very thing you are attempting to discredit. You have given a perfect example of the free market system. I couldn't have given a better example, thank you!

LDS's ask me to teach for them, sort of like out sourcing In so doing they pay me MY fee. Why would I turn that away? I don't depend on them for teaching

I feel like you should take $0.01 back

See how cheap it was to get you!

 

[TheRedHead]

My last instructor charged by the day and the class lasted as long as it took to complete the objectives to his satisfaction. Best instruction I've ever had and worth it.