Scuba Pro Mark 20

[cerich]

I agree with you. I get pretty concerned that SP sends out very few service bulletins on it's regs and that we get left in the dark on most of these issues. They have a dealer/tech only website, they should use it and update it on a regular basis.

I'd also love to submit technical comments to them but that is not really an option. The shop owner has made comments about cold water performance issues but all it has gotten him is a sales rep who regards him as being disloyal.

If you ask a question and the rep regards that as being disloyal, why be a SP dealer? To me asking questions/expressing concerns is showing loyality, otherwise they wouldn't care enough to ask.

Bottom line, SP knows, most dealers know and now many divers know that there are issues with the MK20, they have followed the same path they did with the computer fiasco. In the end the won't be able to cover it up any more, a diver will die or be badly hurt, sue SP. They will blame it on an employee "who covered it up", this poor guy will be fired (talk about disloyal) they will settle and it will be business as usual.

BTY, anybody want to buy a SP MK20 with the first gen G500? Great shape. Need new yoke nut(free from SP dealer) and service.

 

[redacted]

If you ask a question and the rep regards that as being disloyal, why be a SP dealer? To me asking questions/expressing concerns is showing loyality, otherwise they wouldn't care enough to ask.

Bottom line, SP knows, most dealers know and now many divers know that there are issues with the MK20, they have followed the same path they did with the computer fiasco. In the end the won't be able to cover it up any more, a diver will die or be badly hurt, sue SP. They will blame it on an employee "who covered it up", this poor guy will be fired (talk about disloyal) they will settle and it will be business as usual.

BTY, anybody want to buy a SP MK20 with the first gen G500? Great shape. Need new yoke nut(free from SP dealer) and service.

Sounds like a delicate mixture of truth and sour grapes. You wouldn't be anonymously badmouthing the competition, would you?

I think the bottom like is that in spite of some really crappy business practices, the snooty attitude they seem to project, and an occasional stupid idea that goes to production; They have, in the past, and still do make some great gear. Their gear from the 80's and early 90's is hard to beat and is fully supported with current parts and service. And for DIYers who have cracked the spare parts code, it's downright affordable.

So how much do you want for that piece of junk you are selling? And how did you come to own it in the first place?

 

[oversea]

Sounds like a delicate mixture of truth and sour grapes. You wouldn't be anonymously badmouthing the competition, would you?

I think the bottom like is that in spite of some really crappy business practices, the snooty attitude they seem to project, and an occasional stupid idea that goes to production; They have, in the past, and still do make some great gear. Their gear from the 80's and early 90's is hard to beat and is fully supported with current parts and service. And for DIYers who have cracked the spare parts code, it's downright affordable.

So how much do you want for that piece of junk you are selling? And how did you come to own it in the first place?

Sounds like you are one of those DIYers who has cracked the code. Mind passing it along?

 

[cerich]

Sounds like a delicate mixture of truth and sour grapes. You wouldn't be anonymously badmouthing the competition, would you?

I think the bottom like is that in spite of some really crappy business practices, the snooty attitude they seem to project, and an occasional stupid idea that goes to production; They have, in the past, and still do make some great gear. Their gear from the 80's and early 90's is hard to beat and is fully supported with current parts and service. And for DIYers who have cracked the spare parts code, it's downright affordable.

So how much do you want for that piece of junk you are selling? And how did you come to own it in the first place?

Nothing anonymously about it. I've posted here on scubaboard before saying I'm a rep. Mind you I don't rep the same company anymore. It's really not about the competition, competition is a good thing, Diver safety is the thing.

I agree they overall do make good gear, that is why I've owned over a dozen SP regs in the past. Right now I have the MK20 left and a couple of MK2's (DIN) along with 6 or so second stages(R190's,R500's,R250's). The MK20 with the r500 and an R190 I will seperate from for $250. $450 and I will pack up all my Scubapro in a box and send it to you.

 

[redacted]

Nothing anonymously about it. I've posted here on scubaboard before saying I'm a rep. Mind you I don't rep the same company anymore. It's really not about the competition, competition is a good thing, Diver safety is the thing.

I agree they overall do make good gear, that is why I've owned over a dozen SP regs in the past. Right now I have the MK20 left and a couple of MK2's (DIN) along with 6 or so second stages(R190's,R500's,R250's). The MK20 with the r500 and an R190 I will seperate from for $250. $450 and I will pack up all my Scubapro in a box and send it to you.

A fair price, but not the steal I go after these days. With around 10 kits scattered around my scuba closet, wife is getting a bit more critical toward additional purchases.

I had seen in your profile that you are a rep. Who do you rep for?

And I do agree, SP is not handleing this Mk20 thing very well. I bet we are just one serious incident away from a government directed recall. But I am totally amazed that it takes something like this for them to take action to insure their techs even have a torque wrench. It's my impression that SP's evolution of their balanced piston 1st since the Mk5 is more about marketing and ease of service (and HP applications) than it is about performance for the diver. And some of those ease of service changes have just exchanged one problem for another. What really scares me is that they may have one of the better tech training programs! Hopefully I'm wrong on that.

 

[DA Aquamaster]

At the last tech seminar I attended, my torque wrench got passed around as only 2 or 3 of us brought their own. It was apparently a bad sign.

In our shop we were wondering what the real motive was for the free torque wrench offer - to ensure all SP shops were provided with torque wrenches, or to identify the moronic shop owners who did not have or use torque wrenches.

I agree with Awap on the marketing thing. In some respects SP peaked in first stage design with the Mk 10. It was simple, compact, very reliable and offerred more than enough performance for any situation. Someone here described it as the AK-47 of first stage design and it is a pretty accurate analogy. Paired witha G250 or D400, it was hard to beat.

The only real issue was that it was potentially susceptible to HP o-ring pinching at 300 bar pressures, but how many people do you know that actually use 4350 psi tank pressures? I wish SP had kept the Mk 10 or Mk 10 Plus in production as a mid level regulator along side the Mk 16.

 

[scubamoo]

Just an update. Our dive team had a total of about 25 MK20's. Three of these developed cracks (one ruptured -- two had obvious cracks and would've). We replaced all of them with MK25's. They were serviced by an authorized SP dealer -- Dunno if they used a torque wrench... :06:

 

[Guiseppe]

Anybody read the current issue of Undercurrents? There's and interesting article about the MK20's. The file is too large for me to attach here, but if anyone is interested I can fax them a copy.

 

[ericrd]

just a thought - could this be caused at the disassembly of the reg, and not {only} at the assembly - some yoke get fairly hard to undo, and lot of stress goes there...

eric

 

[DA Aquamaster]

I heard about the undercurrent article. My understanding is that the current fix is the SP response, not new Mk 25's for all Mk 20 owners.

Some yoke nuts (not just on Mk 20's) can be extremely hard to get loose, espcially if over torqued, as one or more years of encrustation and corrosion does not make it any easier to get them apart.

But this is not what is causing cracks. The cracks are occuring when the yoke retainer is over torqued as it then essentially bottoms out in the hole in the body of the regulator creating a metal to metal contact as the o-ring is excessively compressed. This creates a great deal of tension in the first stage body as the over torqued retainer basically pushes the body of the reg in two directions at once. The lip on the new retainer means it will snug up against the outside of the body in compression long before it can bottom out inside the first stage body.