Scuba Lessons Jax expelled from PADI--students left in the lurch

[sunnyboy]

Both my sister and I had major problems with our Chrysler products years ago, and we discovered that the dealers who did the required maintenance for our vehicles (two different dealers in two different states) had essentially not done the work that they had charged us for. There were other irregularities. We had both been thoroughly cheated by the dealers. We both contacted Chrysler about it, and Chrysler said it was 100% a problem between us and the dealers, and they were not going to do anything.

I later had a similar problem with a Toyota dealership cheating on repairs. We reported to Toyota, and as a result, I suppose the dealer got some kind of internal downgrading for their service. We got absolutely nothing.

Love those Chrysler products.

My wife & I both bought Neons when they came out in the 90's. Her's lost the oil in our driveway 3 times - two head gaskets and one set of seals. Mine lost the oil once - head gasket.

Chrysler Canada covered the first head gasket on both cars under warranty. The second time, they said no way (it was under a year). I politely asked the service manager if there wasn't something they could do, like split the cost, and his response was "If you were stupid enough to buy a Neon you got what you deserved". He was the sales manager for the southern half of the province at the time.

Needless to say we sold both Neons (fixed up of course) as fast as possible. Wife now has an older Saturn and I have a Ranger.

My father bought only Chryslers his entire life. I had been doing that up to that moment. Guess what I've never bought again? I've also told anyone who asked about cars my story.

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

So I've read PADI's letter written by the head of Quality Management. I'm not sure where the concern lies exactly. Nowhere does PADI say that they are revoking the students certification cards. In that case, I'd say PADI owes them something. But didn't do that so they don't owe anything. Rather, they are recognizing the fact that the students/customers may have had subpar training. PADI hasn't evaluated the students' skills, so they don't know, they just recognize that it may be a possibility. The students are simply encouraged to seek additional training. That's it. I think this is more of a legal move than anything, as if anything happened to these students when diving, PADI could present this letter in court. A prudent measure in my opinion.

The reality is, the training these people received from these particular instructors may have been superior to the training that many students have received, including myself when I took open water. I did fix the substandard training (which I learned was substandard when I became an instructor, at the time, I just "knew" things were not right) by seeking additional training. Chances are, the recipients of this letter will be just fine.

To those ripping into PADI, methinks thou dost protest too much.

 

[admikar]

@wetb4igetinthewater , to continue car analogy, if a car dealership serviced your car and put bogus part that might affect your safety (brake calipers for example)and you paid for it, would you expect to pay again if that manufacturer say to you:OK, you might be at danger, now go to another service center and put new calipers in? My car had some "defects" that were serviced for free, even when warranty expired.
@boulderjohn, you're right, we do not know all the facts. But, if PADI allows you to put their logo on your shop and use it as a marketing resource, they ought to be responsible. And if it turns out to be true and that PADI affiliated shop delivered sub standard course and PADI do nothing to re-compensate, will you leave it, just like you ditched Chevy and told everyone that knows you to do the same?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

@wetb4igetinthewater , to continue car analogy, if a car dealership serviced your car and put bogus part that might affect your safety (brake calipers for example)and you paid for it, would you expect to pay again if that manufacturer say to you:OK, you might be at danger, now go to another service center and put new calipers in? My car had some "defects" that were serviced for free, even when warranty expired

I said that PADI doesn't know whether the recipient received "defective/bogus parts", just that some customers have received such, and thus they've given them a warning

 

[redacted]

I suspect that the only problem may be that PADI did not get all the $$$$ from the expelled instructors that they thought they should get. But iit really could have been any training agency that has verty poor control of its member instructors.

 

[boulderjohn]

I suspect that the only problem may be that PADI did not get all the $$$$ from the expelled instructors that they thought they should get. But iit really could have been any training agency that has verty poor control of its member instructors.

Of course!

This ios exactly what I talked about earlier. There is not a hint of evidence that this is true. So if you point out that this is a ridiculous speculation based only on prejudice, are you a PADI defender, or are you a defender of the process of using facts rather than prejudice as a basis for discussion?

 

[redacted]

Of course!

This ios exactly what I talked about earlier. There is not a hint of evidence that this is true. So if you point out that this is a ridiculous speculation based only on prejudice, are you a PADI defender, or are you a defender of the process of using facts rather than prejudice as a basis for discussion?

Evidence like the specific standards that PADI specified in their emaiil that were niot followed in over a year of violations? Sometimes you have to understand what people do not say in addition to what they do say.

 

[Rred]

Let's see now. Some folks were sent C-cards by PADI. PADI is now saying, maybe they shouldn't have sent those cards because maybe the training wasn't 100%. OK. But in the meantime...PADI did issue the cards and PADI is supposed to uphold standards, not just once in a while but ongoing.

That letter might be a fine piece of CYA, but it wouldn't impress a Bronx Jury. Or many others.

What would it cost PADI to re-imburse other shops in the area for giving a free check-up quiz (or post that online directly) and a free check-up dive to the affected divers? Maybe $75 a pop for 180 divers? $13,500? I'd call that a cheap investment, cheap PR, and incredibly less expensive than simply showing up in court to answer one suit from one diver's estate. (Which could be for over $3,000,000 if you used the FAA's basic death payment values.)

But of course, sending out 180 letters is about $13,000 cheaper still.(sigh.)

Right, wrong, responsible, not...really doesn't matter when it comes to the PR value of their actions, and how those 180 students may now choose to take future training from another agency. The value of that alone could cost PADI more than some generous assistance would.

 

[bakodiver391]

I haven't counted but quite a number of folks on here have stated that they received substandard training through PADI and didn't realize it until they became instructors or at least obtained advanced training. Furthermore, none has stated that their instructor was barred or corrected by PADI. That plus my own observations leads me to believe that PADI's quality assurance program is compromised, and it is only the most egregious violations that grab their attention.

 

[BRT]

Not really a PADI fanboy. I did make it through DM with them, but I have never taught for PADI and couldn't see myself ever teaching for PADI. Not because I think they are evil and that profit is their only motive, but because I have a more freewheeling approach to Scuba Instruction. PADI is far too structured for me and I would be kicked out after I taught my first class under their aegis.

Now, something to think about here is we don't know what would happen if one of these divers complained to PADI. I worked for Goodyear tire and rubber for 15 years. My most difficult job was the customer walking in with a rim covered in a completely shredded tire. The customer just knew that they were going to leave with a free new tire and my job was to make them completely happy with buying a new tire instead. I was pretty damned effective and I didn't learn why it was so important that I was until I finally got training in Akron. Liability was huge, but profit was also a factor. I didn't mind giving a tire away if I thought it was really at fault, but more often than not, this was not the case 99% of the time.

Customer service is not about giving away the store: it's about being fair. I would suggest that many are holding PADI to a far, far higher standard of good customer service. Are there motives for that? Who knows except for the individuals. I would uncomfortable accusing any of them of being malicious by any standard. That doesn't mean they aren't biased, only that their biases are probably benign.

Another thing, people are always accusing PADI of being profit motivated. I hope they are! I doubt that this is their only motive, but there is nothing sinister about a company wanting to make a profit. Hell, I want to make a profit. Minding your profit, especially long term, is the quickest way to make safety a number one priority. Nothing hurts your profit more than an oopsie resulting in an injury or death. I saw lots of safety responses at Goodyear while I was there. Everyone had to wear safety glasses, customers had to be escorted in the shop and now they even have chain barriers at the back of the bay to keep people out. What a pain it must be to work there now.

You are correct that almost 100% of the time when a customer comes in with a shredded tire it is the customers fault. We take care of that by having a policy that if the tire had legal tread depth we split the cost of a new one with the customer. No convincing, no arguing. I don't think we have ever had a customer go away mad over that policy. Of course it we see something that makes us think it might have been a defective tire we just cover it. The truth is that a defective American made tire is about as likely as hens needing dentures. In this case PADI is trying to put legal distance between them and their instructors. If one of those students manages to kill themselves without paying for more training it could get interesting.