Scuba Lessons Jax expelled from PADI--students left in the lurch

[Rred]

Here's on fast online article:
Arlington scuba instructor loses certification

Which says in part:
" After the Better Business Bureau of Northeast Florida warned consumers about an Arlington company that certifies people to dive, News4Jax learned that the owner of Scuba Lessons Jax has been officially expelled from the Professional Association of Diving Instructors.

The Professional Association of Diving Instructors, also known as PADI, sent an email Friday morning to all its Florida members, notifying them that Scuba Lessons Jax owner Chris Conrad had been expelled for failure to adhere to certain standards and unethical business practices. ...

...According to the BBB, as many as 180 people paid hundreds of dollars through Groupon to take scuba lessons at Scuba Lessons Jax -- but numerous customers complained that they took the course and never got their certification cards.

The BBB said it believed that customers couldn't get their certification cards because Conrad is no longer affiliated with PADI."

One could argue that if PADI made it impossible for students-in-progress to complete their courses, by expelling their instructor, than PADI would have some responsibility. I suppose now PADI will have to respond by drafting a new liability waiver for students, saying they hold PADI harmless if their instructor should be expelled or they are otherwise unable to complete their course because of actions outside their control. (sigh.)

 

[Wookie]

I'm pretty sure the material can be reused by the same person. That does not violate copyright. For example, the Adventures in Diving manual has 20 some Adventure dives in it; the manual does not suddenly become unusable after 1, or 3, or 5, or 15 of those dives is done, even though the AOW might have been obtained along the way.

Well, I'd look it up, but it turns out that I haven't re-upped my membership this year. So I couldn't log on and see what John was doing in the member forum either. So I'll just leave it here, because I had no idea I wasn't even a member any more.

 

[boulderjohn]

Wow. The manufacturer closed all 3 dealerships because they were defrauding customers? Cause that's what we were talking about....

My communications skills must be really lacking today. No, the manufacturer did NOTHING that I know of with the 3 dealerships who were defrauding their customers. They said the problems were between the customers and the dealerships and had nothing to do with them.

Just for context, this was in response by speculation that if someone had a complaint about the shady dealings of an automotive dealer, the manufacturer would certainly step in and make it right for the customer. What I was doing was responding to sheer speculation with facts.

 

[tursiops]

In fact, if you were to be a member and participate in the PADI instructor forum right now, you will see that I am participating in a discussion in which I am very strongly attacking certain PADI policies and standards. If you go, you will see that I am doing it through the use of actual facts, which in our new world where facts don't matter is an anomaly.

What is this "instructor forum" of which you speak?

 

[boulderjohn]

What is this "instructor forum" of which you speak?

If you go to the Instructor to Instructor forum, you will find a subforum for PADI Pros. You have to request permission to join, and you have to be a current PADI Pro to join.

 

[Damselfish]

Does anyone see a parallel between this, and liveaboard operations that are mostly made up of what are essentially franchises or licensees of some sort? There are certainly plenty of opinions that the mothership should do more than make a minimal gesture or punt to the franchise when something goes wrong - among both people that understand the structure of the business, and people who don't.

 

[tursiops]

If you go to the Instructor to Instructor forum, you will find a subforum for PADI Pros. You have to request permission to join, and you have to be a current PADI Pro to join.

Ahhh, you mean on SB? I thought you were referring to something on the PADI site.

 

[rmssetc]

Personally, I thought it was a gutsy letter and I don't see how you can blame PADI in this. First off, if they offered compensation, they would have admitted guilt. Any subsequent injury or fatality would use that very thing against them. Secondly, when you go to the Chevy dealership and their service department screws up your car, your beef isn't with Chevy: it's with the dealership.

I think a better analogy might be:

...when you go to the Chevy dealership and their service department potentially screws up your car, and then Chevy rescinds the dealership's franchise, and then Chevy refuses to honor the warranty on the work done, including warranty on parts installed, your beef is both with Chevy and the dealership​

PADI is completely correct in urging affected divers to have their training reviewed, either by taking the same course again or by taking an upgrade.

Chevy would urge owners to have their car examined after it became aware that a dealership was doing substandard work. Perhaps a bolt wasn't torqued to spec, but that doesn't mean that the customer needs to buy a new bolt when the next dealer checks the tension unless Chevy is taking responsibility for the bolt itself being substandard or it was damaged during the installation. Beating this poor dead horse of an analogy, PADI seems to be treating eLearning material like a bolt that was damaged by the original dealership.

In this case, the materials provided by PADI are not in question, yet the customer is being told they'll need to purchase new parts (training material) and pay additional fees to Chevy (portion of the fees collected by the shop that went directly to PADI) certifying the work.

IANAL, but I'm guessing that none of this is illegal on PADI's part, but it's not good customer relations either.

 

[The Chairman]

[sarchasm]But I know you can't see that, that's why you are such a PADI fanboy and teach PADI classes on the knees.//[sarchasm]

Not really a PADI fanboy. I did make it through DM with them, but I have never taught for PADI and couldn't see myself ever teaching for PADI. Not because I think they are evil and that profit is their only motive, but because I have a more freewheeling approach to Scuba Instruction. PADI is far too structured for me and I would be kicked out after I taught my first class under their aegis.

Now, something to think about here is we don't know what would happen if one of these divers complained to PADI. I worked for Goodyear tire and rubber for 15 years. My most difficult job was the customer walking in with a rim covered in a completely shredded tire. The customer just knew that they were going to leave with a free new tire and my job was to make them completely happy with buying a new tire instead. I was pretty damned effective and I didn't learn why it was so important that I was until I finally got training in Akron. Liability was huge, but profit was also a factor. I didn't mind giving a tire away if I thought it was really at fault, but more often than not, this was not the case 99% of the time.

Customer service is not about giving away the store: it's about being fair. I would suggest that many are holding PADI to a far, far higher standard of good customer service. Are there motives for that? Who knows except for the individuals. I would uncomfortable accusing any of them of being malicious by any standard. That doesn't mean they aren't biased, only that their biases are probably benign.

Another thing, people are always accusing PADI of being profit motivated. I hope they are! I doubt that this is their only motive, but there is nothing sinister about a company wanting to make a profit. Hell, I want to make a profit. Minding your profit, especially long term, is the quickest way to make safety a number one priority. Nothing hurts your profit more than an oopsie resulting in an injury or death. I saw lots of safety responses at Goodyear while I was there. Everyone had to wear safety glasses, customers had to be escorted in the shop and now they even have chain barriers at the back of the bay to keep people out. What a pain it must be to work there now.

 

[boulderjohn]

In this case, the materials provided by PADI are not in question, yet the customer is being told they'll need to purchase new parts (training material) and pay additional fees to Chevy (portion of the fees collected by the shop that went directly to PADI) certifying the work.

IANAL, but I'm guessing that none of this is illegal on PADI's part, but it's not good customer relations either.

Here is an example of what I was talking about earlier. Nowhere have we heard in any official capacity that PADI is doing this. In fact, the only message we have from PADI says nothing of the sort. However, the serial PADI bashers on the thread speculated that this MIGHT happen, and then they ripped into PADI for what is only their speculation. Here the ripping continues with no facts behind it at all.

As a slight aside, while this thread was going on today, the drain in my house backed up, and I had to call one of those roto-rooter guys to come and fix it. They advertised that it costs $88, but it turns out that price is only for a simple mainline job. Mine was more complicated, and it required a full half hour of work, so they had to charge full fare. I was therefore charged $563 for that half hour of work. While I paid, I thought of the serial PADI basher on this thread who in another thread a few days ago called PADI instructors like me "money grabbers" and repeated that tired old cliché Put Another Dollar In as if he had just come up with the most brilliant statement in the history. I have frequently made less than minimum wage on the instruction I do, and I have certainly never made $1,126 an hour. Maybe that's why I get a little tired of the bashing.