Scuba-L Cratos(Orion) Back-inflate BCD

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littlce

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Location
Midland, Texas
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0 - 24
Well, I just got my new BC in and tried it out in the pool and I thought I'd share my "newbie" impressions of the quality with you.

I cut back on buying a nighthawk from my LDS to save money toward buying a better reg setup, so I was looking around for good - inexpensive BCDs when I came across a review for a Triple-L or Scuba-L Orion. The review seemed positive and the cost was good, so I decided to look them up. Don't ask me why they have two names, but they seem to be moving away from Triple-L and moving toward Scuba-L as a brand marking. In any case, Please find below my impressions of this BC.

Their web site has two faces. The first is their US web site found at http://www.scubal.com. The other face is their international web site which can link from the US site or you can go directly there at http://worldwide.scubal.com. They have several BCs on their International web site, but not as many on the US site. It also appears that their newer models are released on the international site first which is where I found mine. What I got was a BC called the Cratos. It is the same BC as the Orion (back inflation) but with white markings and white pull tabs for integrated weights as opposed to the yellow of the Orion.

I asked their sales department which BC would fit my dimensions since I was squarely in between sizes. They put me at XL, but to be sure I read more reviews from users on SB. They all said that the chart was large and to order down if you were on the border between sizes. I'm so glad I followed their advice and ordered a Large instead. When the BCD arrived it fit me perfectly with room to spare... If you order from here... order down a size if you are on the border or if you are even on the bottom of your size dimensions from the chart.

I got my BC about 3 weeks after I ordered it because I also ordered two custom wetsuits (look for my coming wet suit review) and a gear bag. So the wetsuits delayed the order from shipping for a while, but once it shipped, they sent me a tracking number and it arrived quickly (DHL International Express.)

When I took it out of the box, I was expecting some assembly, but I was pleasantly surprised that it was already put together for me from the factory... and boy is this BC solid... It appears to be a soft (STIFF nylon) backplate/harness thingie with a fitting bladder assembly that fits like a jacket on the backplate's construction. If you puncture this bc, you can just replace the bladder or patch it and you are ready to go! There is a padded back also that is comfortable.

There are good quality Stainless D rings all over this thing! The web site says 11, but I count 12... 2 on the front of each shoulder strap (4 together), 4 on the sides of the back plate (2 on each side), and two underneath the "arms" (4 together) of the very solidly constructed cummerbund.

The cummberbund has a wide non-stretchy standard cinche belt that you tighten by pulling two d rings attached to a plastic buckle assembly that you see standard on most BCDs... of course there is the obligatory velcro to help it stay put while you tighten it. The cummerbund also has a pouch that you can pull off if you don't need it... it doesn't really reattach anywhere else that I can figure. There are also two interesting little modular pockets on the waist next to the bladder. They can be moved anywhere on the bc or kept in place. The pockets are divided in half and both halves have sturdy zippers to close them but there is also a buckle that wraps around them vertically further securing these pockets. I am really impressed with them. They easily fit my three lbs. trim weight in one half of the pocket with room to spare.

This BC has a modular design meaning you can take parts off and replace them with other parts, so if your bladder gets damaged you can replace it... or the jacket over the bladder... or the cummerbund or shoulderstraps.

The inflator/deflator hose looks cool (yeah it's cosmetic) and feels very sturdy. The controls are made of chromed stainless steel and it comes with its own low pressure inflator hose attached with a quick disconnect. The construction of the entire unit appears and feels very sturdy and very high quality. There is a standard dump valve at the beginning of the hose that works very well as the top dump valve. Two other dump valves are at the bottom lobes of the bladder... they also work very well.

The tank straps are VERY solid construction and double straps so your single tank will not shift. I don't know if this BC is able to be modified for two tanks, but I wouldn't think so.

The shoulders are adjustable, have two wrap straps (one for your inflator hose), an adjustable chest buckle, and also reflective tape strips.

The integrated weight system is good. I would have preferred a buckle system (available on the Orion3 on the international site), but this is a velcro only system - however it is well designed. There are even stiff backings on the pockets that aid you in inserting them... I hate floppy weight pockets :).

In summary, this BCD is a well designed and sturdy unit that will last a long time. It is well worth the money and then some and I would recommend this BC to anyone at all. It is that good.

If you have any questions please post them here and I will modify this review.
 
Excellent review. I have been interested in these for a while but others, suspicious of the price have been a bit cynical. I was interested in the Cratos over the Orion, (mainly I preferred the colour scheme, pathetic I know). Would you recommend the Orion over the Cratos - I'm thinking of the more positive weight pocket attachment you mentioned, I've had a bad experience with the straight velcro only setup.

One other question, and I know it's strictly off-topic, but how are the wetsuits?

I was diving with a young lad this weekend, he borrowed all his gear off me. THe prices listed ate 50% of what he'd pay here for one and I was showing him the wetsuits on the Scubal website but was a bit retricent about fully recommending he buy one from there as it's still a major purchase for a 19 yr old and with no other references, was concerned about how good the product is and/or reliable the company.
 
thanks Trickie... Regarding your first question about the Cratos over the Orion...if you are referring to the "Orion" and not the "Orion3" then I would tell you they are the exact same BCD. Cratos = Orion The ONLY difference is that the Orion has a black/yellow color scheme and the Cratos is black/white. The Orion3 has buckled weight pockets, but the pull rings are black... which is the reason for me going with the more visible white of the Cratos even though it is velcro only. The addition of the hard backing on the Cratos/Orion weight pockets I think makes it easier to manage the inserts and makes me feel better about the connection of the velcro.

The wetsuits are made of good material. I am not a good reference for these as I can't speak to the durability, but I can tell you their customer service is good. there was a problem with the fit of the second wetsuit I ordered, so they sent another one and though they claimed it was my fault because the measurements weren't done right, they did not charge me any extra. I think this is good customer service and it will make me feel better about buying from them in the future.

One thing my LDS said that struck me was... "you don't seem like you have a body that would be hard to fit..." and that is true. If your friend doesn't have a disproportionate body shape, maybe he should shop his LDS for a wetsuit on discount, go to an online dealer like scubatoys (10% discount for scubaboard members) or another reputable retailer. Look at the sizing charts, talk to the people and find one on closeout.

After all is said and done, the ScubaL wetsuit is about 130 after shipping, so you can probably get another standard size wetsuit for just as much elsewhere too. The reason I got mine from there was because I knew I was going to buy several items from them at once, so getting a wetsuit or two from them would be more cost-effective than splitting up my purchase between retailers.

All in all, I wasn't dissatisfied with the wetsuit purchase or the quality versus the price, but the budget minded can't be very picky, can they?

Please note also... you have to pay special attention to the measuring instructions. Do not waver from them... not even a bit. Custom suits are a tricky business.
 
littlce:
thanks Trickie... Regarding your first question about the Cratos over the Orion...if you are referring to the "Orion" and not the "Orion3" then I would tell you they are the exact same BCD. Cratos = Orion The ONLY difference is that the Orion has a black/yellow color scheme and the Cratos is black/white. The Orion3 has buckled weight pockets, but the pull rings are black... which is the reason for me going with the more visible white of the Cratos even though it is velcro only. The addition of the hard backing on the Cratos/Orion weight pockets I think makes it easier to manage the inserts and makes me feel better about the connection of the velcro.

The wetsuits are made of good material. I am not a good reference for these as I can't speak to the durability, but I can tell you their customer service is good. there was a problem with the fit of the second BC I ordered, so they sent another one and though they claimed it was my fault because the measurements weren't done right, they did not charge me any extra. I think this is good customer service and it will make me feel better about buying from them in the future.

One thing my LDS said that struck me was... "you don't seem like you have a body that would be hard to fit..." and that is true. If your friend doesn't have a disproportionate body shape, maybe he should shop his LDS for a wetsuit on discount, go to an online dealer like scubatoys (10% discount for scubaboard members) or another reputable retailer. Look at the sizing charts, talk to the people and find one on closeout.

After all is said and done, the ScubaL wetsuit is about 130 after shipping, so you can probably get another standard size wetsuit for just as much elsewhere too. The reason I got mine from there was because I knew I was going to buy several items from them at once, so getting a wetsuit or two from them would be more cost-effective than splitting up my purchase between retailers.

All in all, I wasn't dissatisfied with the wetsuit purchase or the quality versus the price, but the budget minded can't be very picky, can they?

Please note also... you have to pay special attention to the measuring instructions. Do not waver from them... not even a bit. Custom suits are a tricky business.

Hmmm. That's interesting, the webpage for the Cratos definitely shows the weight pockets as having clips as well as velcro.

http://www.scubal.com/worldwide/content/index.php?proid=1160&catid=806&procatid=263

No probs for me anyway, I don't use the WI feature on y BC, prefer a H-pattern weight harness, although I guess it would be OK in the Tropics where I'm not carrying so much lead.

On the wetsuits, well that's one item which is pretty exxy here in Australia, paid equivalent of $US400 here for a good 7mm suit for my son a couple of years ago. Diving gear in Aus is very expensive, the importers have really got it tied up between them.

It's actually cheaper for me to convert Aussie $ to British Pounds and buy stuff from the UK than to get it locally, especially lighter weight items like membrane drysuits, regulators, computers etc. That's despite the fact that Aussie $s buy bugger-all in the UK in most other respects.
 
I had the same thought about the weight pouches until I saw that all the BCs have the same picture. I think that's a pic taken of the Orion3 weight pouch and has been recycled for use with other BCs.
My thoughts were confirmed when the sales dept told me that the difference in the two BCs was the weight buckle systems. velcro only vs. buckle system

Good luck with your purchase, and be sure to follow the instructions on the site for the wetsuit measurements exactly.
 
littlce:
I had the same thought about the weight pouches until I saw that all the BCs have the same picture. I think that's a pic taken of the Orion3 weight pouch and has been recycled for use with other BCs.
My thoughts were confirmed when the sales dept told me that the difference in the two BCs was the weight buckle systems. velcro only vs. buckle system

Good luck with your purchase, and be sure to follow the instructions on the site for the wetsuit measurements exactly.
Intereasting. This is the email I sent to ScubaL and reply received on that subject yesterday:

"Dear Richard,

Thanks for your inquiry!

Cratos and Orion are the same styles of Back Inflation. Therefore, crotch strap for Orion also can be used with Cratos.

Cratos has both clip and velcro as you see on our web. The comment of guy on scubaboard may be our old version of Cratos.

Generally, Orion and Cratos have the same integrated weight system which include clip and velcro, not buckle and just different from outside design such as logo. Orion3 has buckle on drop pocket instead of velcro and clip.

Hope my response helps you to get more information about our products.
Let me know if you have further questions.

Best regards,

Jessica Nguyen.

TRIPLE-L Int'L LLC
8721 Santa Monica Blvd, #440
Los Angeles, CA 90069-4507
Fax: (775) 822-7917
info@scubal.com
sales@scubal.com

---------------------------------------------------------------------
Offline message was left on server.

Name: Richard
Email: richard.*****@*********

I was wondering if the crotch strap, which is for the Orion, also fits the Cratos?

Also, does the Cratos Integrated Weight pocket have a clip + velcro, or is it velcro only? The website shows clip+ velcro, but a posting on Scubaboard.com, from a purchaser says that the Cratos pockets only have velcro.

Regards

Richard"

What to make of that then? I'm also wondering what the difference is between a buckle and a clip too. I did ask about that but have had no frther reply.
 
WOW!!! Thanks for introducing this BC to me. I would like to know how has it held up.
 
Well, I ended up buying one but not until April of this year. Very pleased with, it's very comfortable, although I did find with a single 12L faber steel cylinder (that's 95 cu ft to you in the 50) and my thick undersuit that the integrated pockets don't hold enough weight to hold me neutral on 50bar reserve pressure, so I've ditched the whole cummerbund and integrated weights and replaced them with a couple of lengths of weightbelt webbing and a quick release buckle and am using my H-pattern weight harness but this is fine and if needed, I can still thread a weight or two onto the webbing too.

Pretty early on in the piece, I converted it to an independent twinset, using a set of AP Valves Buddy Twinning Bands and although in this picture, I'm using twin 7.6Ls, I've recently started using it with twin 12Ls, although as it has a pair of strategically placed holes in the backpack, I think I might just fit a back plate at some point in the near future.

TwinsJetsIsleDePhoques.jpg


000_0082.jpg


Impressions? Well apart from the fact that the integrated pockets still have the velcro flaps, everything else was very pleasing. It's far & away the most comfortable BCD I've ever used, although to be fair, this is my first wing-style unit. At $AU279, including freight from Viet Nam, the price was around 1/3~1/4 what I'd exect to pay for a basic BCD here.

Having mentioned the integrated weight pockets & velcro, I have to say that they seem more much more secure than similar pockets in a jacket style bcd. I suspect this is because there's no pressure on them from the air bladder as there is in a jacket bcd, which I think can tend to squeeze the pockets out. Were I to keep on using them, I'd be getting stainless steel popper studs fitted to the weight capsule flap and the body of the weight pocket.

Very very chuffed with it. My son's girlfriend is about to take up diving too and as an 18 year old student who has to watch her money, then in all probability, she'll be buying a Scuba-L too.
 

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