Scuba diver dies after being found floating at Kurnell, NSW, Australia

[Stoo]

Complacency/(and panic ) kills ...we learned that (same as you 40 years ago ) basic ow class then it was rammed home in combat (maybe why im still here ) i still stress it in all my classes from ow to tech and rebreather

I think anyone who has been diving "a while" is likely guilty of becoming complacent to some extent. These unfortunate accidents serve to remind us that we are all vulnerable. I know that when our friend died this summer, the result of breathing of an O2 toxicity hit after breathing from a tank he had not tested, that many of us rethought our procedures. I no longer test my "mix" tanks... I test ALL of my tanks, even the straight air. In doing so... testing EVERY tank... I will never forget to test a tank that contains something else. Following that accident, a couple of local dive shops held sales on analyzers, selling then at their cost, just to keep their customers safe. I know of one Instructor who took my suggestion and increased the price of his Nitrox course but included a shiny new Analox O2 analyzer with every one.

The ability to avoid panicking is tested in every diver sooner or later. I can think of perhaps three events in 5000 dives (give or take) where it happened to me... I don't know if panic was a factor in this case, but it's hard to imagine that in the moments before anyone meets their Maker that it isn't....

I've always maintained that the best way to get so comfortable in the water that you can fend of "anything" is to dive and dive and dive. And not just in courses... but with other "real" divers who share your enthusiasm and love of the sport.

It's a wonderful, amazing world underwater, but make no mistake, that beautiful lake or ocean will snuff out the life of anyone who fails to heed the "rules"...

 

[Zippsy]

I know of one Instructor who took my suggestion and increased the price of his Nitrox course but included a shiny new Analox O2 analyzer with every one.

Off topic but that must be an expensive class!

 

[drdaddy]

I’ve been biting my tongue for several days now. I’ve finally bitten all the way through it, so now I’ll post.

Marcia was a highly accomplished tropical diver. She was a capable cold water diver in a wetsuit. Never forget one thing, why she splashed . For her, it was all about observing and photographing her beloved sea creatures.

Cold water diving is perfect for gear freaks, like me. I enjoy the challenge of adjusting to the situation at hand. I like to progress scientifically and systematically. Extend my range... None of this held any interest for Marcia. Doppler once said something to me that really stuck. And let the source, himself, correct me if I misquote, but it was something like “I wish they made a pill to correct vision and allow me to breathe and be warm underwater”. The idea was that all this technical, expensive, complicated, specialized, gear and diving procedures are just necessary pains that allow you to enter the world that you seek. The safe cold water divers are all caught up in gear and procedure, once that is down, and only then, do we seek our bliss.

Quite a while ago, Marcia kidded back and forth with me about wanting a better flash for her camera. She was going to ship it to me so I could deliver it and then go diving in her backyard. The camera rig I saw being removed from the ocean was quite a piece. Nobody mentioned that. Talk about overtasked! A ill fitting suit, improper undergarments, no professional guidance with anything, a monster camera rig, a new cold water dive site, figuring everything out for herself, running out of time with respect to what she wanted to accomplish with her dives, nobody nearby, please feel free to jump in and add to the list…

The red flag, No, OF ALL THE RED FLAGS, THE BIGGEST RED FLAG was her dealing with the new drysuit issues on ScubaBoard up to the day that she got onto the plane. There was a complete lack of understanding with respect to putting together a balanced rig that would keep her warm, fit, safe, and underwater for her planned dive goal and dive time.

Go back to her very last post to us. I was trying to get her to layer. Layering takes much more time to “dial in” than just pulling on a big bulky fleece. She said she didn’t want a “bulky” suit so she wouldn’t be a “sail” or get caught in current. Truth seems to be that she ended up with a suit that was too small and had inadequate room for undergarments.

So how did she end up in Botany Bay in 15°C water? She just booked a trip and met up with dive buddies. Who mentored Marcia from her warm water roots into coldwater diving? IMHO, it looks like she tried to garner enough information from us on the board to be able to throw together a cold water drysuit day pass. It will be OK, it’s not deep, I’ll just tough it out.

It didn’t work. Last time I tried to “tough it out” while being unprepared, I had my ass handed back to me by Doppler. The difference was, I was in a closely supervised class.
This isn’t about the buddy system, gear, or anything else. It is about lack of common sense.

Is this how we care for and welcome tropical divers to our world?

There is a real lesson to be learned here, and it isn’t just about how to properly gear up or what buddy procedure to use. It is all about manning up and dropping the loosey-goosey solo **** because she was an experienced dive professional. We need to see her for who she really was, a wonderfully inexperienced coldwater diver that set herself up to get hurt or killed.

Marcia ran a dive operation in Phuket, Thailand. In her off times, she loved to correspond with other divers via PM’s. All you know who you are. And all of you that know her for who she truly was, also know the bitter pain of her loss.

It is 3:20 AM here in Delaware, the board is going down shortly for daily maintenance. I think I’ll give Marcia a shout when it comes back up…

Thank you for posting this. I am one of those divers who Marcia PM'd with. For a number of years we have planned to go to Thailand for medical relief work. For R&R we had planned to go to Marcia's Gekko Divers where she was to plan everything for us including housing. Last Friday (November 29th) our medical doctor daughter arrived in Thailand for about a years stay. An hour and a half ago I went to Gekko Divers web-site to "talk" to Marcia about dive plans in the Spring and saw their RIP notice. I came directly here and am still in shock. I called my wife to the computer and she just stared with her mouth opened. The last thing I want to think about right now is diving Thailand without Marcia. And I am deeply sorry for those who knew her personally. I've only "known" her here on SB and have always valued her comments as a moderator - so many times with a "Like".

Yes, we have lost Marcia. And that is why I'm making myself read through this thread. It is obvious that it would never be her intention to hurt someone, but she would certainly want us to learn from her death. It is extremely painful to read the speculation and imagine Marcia in this situation, and it is terrifying to imagine myself being in a similar situation. I want to honor Marcia by learning from her mistakes, because that is what she would want. RIP Marcia - you are truly missed.

 

[drdaddy]

I live in the Pacnorwest and the primary reason I don't dive here is the move to a dry suit. I have over a thousand dives and in an emergency my instincts are going to be muscle memory driven. The drysuit weight belts I have seen look like a over the shoulder belt system with 30+ pounds that would flustered the heck out of me. In an emergency being unfamiliar with equipment can and often results in a fatal outcome. It also seems that it is older divers new to drysuits that are the fatalities up here.

I am glad you wrote about your caution about drysuits. It was written earlier, and it probably is true, that if Marcia had of been wearing what she was familiar with, a wetsuit, she would be with us today.

I am a Pacific NW 7mm wetsuit diver and my buddy and I dive year around (we would be out today w/air temp 32 degrees Fahrenheit, water 49 degrees, but the passes are closed due to snow/ice) - we are both 62 years old. We dive the Oregon Coast and Puget Sound. I have hauled out of breath drysuit divers up onto the Jetty a number of times and then have gone back and forth and ferried their equipment for them (they were not dive buddies, but I saw them in distress).

I would encourage you to pick a competent buddy or better yet a competent instructor (there are a couple of Puget Sound Instructors who are SB Moderators) and dive wetsuits for a while. We love them! However, you are also welcome to dive drysuits with these same instructors (probably wearing their drysuits). But drysuits do add some extra complexities, but nothing you can't master. I've had the training and decided against them - too much wear and tear and rips and extra complexities on the Jetties.

The real warning is that - especially when using/testing unfamiliar gear - stay close to your buddies. In the past, experimenting in "safe places" with new equipment has almost cost me. Regardless of her new gear problems Marcia may have been having, a buddy close-by would most likely have "saved" her.

---------- Post added December 7th, 2013 at 02:36 PM ----------

I have no idea what you are trying to say. Disrespect Qureo? How by pointing out her buddy didn't follow her around like he should have? I would not like to be her (that) buddy today because I would be blaming myself for her death because as her buddy I wasn't there when she needed me because I let her slip away from me. How is that disrespect?

Obviously you had no disrespect meant for Marcia. The other person (Malaysia) just misread your quote. I understood exactly what you meant about it being hard for her buddy, regardless of the circumstances.

 

[Bob DBF]

I am glad you wrote about your caution about drysuits. It was written earlier, and it probably is true, that if Marcia had of been wearing what she was familiar with, a wetsuit, she would be with us today.

I am a Pacific NW 7mm wetsuit diver and my buddy and I dive year around (we would be out today w/air temp 32 degrees Fahrenheit, water 49 degrees, but the passes are closed due to snow/ice) - we are both 62 years old. We dive the Oregon Coast and Puget Sound. I have hauled out of breath drysuit divers up onto the Jetty a number of times and then have gone back and forth and ferried their equipment for them (they were not dive buddies, but I saw them in distress).

Originally Posted by lowviz
Go back to her very last post to us. I was trying to get her to layer. Layering takes much more time to “dial in” than just pulling on a big bulky fleece. She said she didn’t want a “bulky” suit so she wouldn’t be a “sail” or get caught in current. Truth seems to be that she ended up with a suit that was too small and had inadequate room for undergarments.

So how did she end up in Botany Bay in 15°C water? She just booked a trip and met up with dive buddies. Who mentored Marcia from her warm water roots into coldwater diving? IMHO, it looks like she tried to garner enough information from us on the board to be able to throw together a cold water drysuit day pass. It will be OK, it’s not deep, I’ll just tough it out.

Well these two quotes changed my theory, medical, which is my go to when an experienced diver dies in benign conditions. drdaddy reminds me in his posts that cold water is not benign. Add to that, lowviz comments which might lead one to believe there could be inadequate thermal protection.

I've been diving the NorCal Coast quite a while year round, and aside from the decision to get in the water, tracking how long you can stay in the water without getting too cold is the #1 survival technique, especially when getting in that "extra" dive. It's getting to be time for a new wetsuit, so it's even more important to me now.

So far I have pulled two divers out of the water because of hypothermia, one in a wetsuit and one in a drysuit. The first time I just wondered how someone could be narked in less than 50' of water, as he was catatonic until harassed to continue to the exit of the dive. Onboard we figured what the problem was, but the diver did not remember anything past trying to tough out the cold. The second was easier to diagnose, even in the drysuit. Without assistance both would have stayed in place, staring off into the abyss until the air ran out or they expired, whichever came first.

Someone who has an objective to make, is not familiar with how fast one can get from cold to hypothermia in cold water, diving solo, and toughing out the cold could end badly.




Bob
-----------------------------------------------
"the future is uncertain and the end is always near"
Jim Morrison

 

[Diver0001]

You miss the point Don... I know you love the accident investigation part of SB...but if it was your wife, or your kid, I'd bet you would shut this down in a heart beat...and ....that would be the right thing to do....
This is too close to home ( for the SB team), for them to be forced to act like this should be discussed to learn from.....If your wife just died, would you be thrilled to have a bunch of med students tearing around her insides, right after her death? I don't think you would want to see this, or to enjoy their discussions.

If I was SB, I'd be pissed at you right now!!!

Unless I missed something I thought we handeld it pretty bloody well tbh...particularly in the days after it happend when it was all very fresh (and painful)

R..


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[lowviz]

...//... Someone who has an objective to make, is not familiar with how fast one can get from cold to hypothermia in cold water, diving solo, and toughing out the cold could end badly.
...//...

Bob, one last point to add. Marcia and I would have been the same age, endurance begins to suffer. There was a drill that TeamLGS made all us divers do just as a "wake-up" call. I strongly recommend that you try it yourself as you are of a mindset to "get it".

Fatigue drill:

You, face down and geared-up in a couple feet of water while your (standing) buddy is holding your tank or reg quite securely. One fist-bump on the head and you start finning as hard as possible. Buddy times exactly one minute then gives you another, hard fist-bump on the head and you just stop finning and get onto your secondary air supply. End of drill. Try it.

 

[Bob DBF]

Yeah lowviz, that drill should hand me my a** on a platter. Going to have to check it out.


Bob

 

[drdaddy]

Marcia and I are (were) about the same age, 62 years old. Yesterday my wife and family climbed the same hill as last year to get a Christmas tree. I was still sore from my 2 coldwater (45 degrees - colder than usual) wetsuit dives from the day before. It wasn't the climb that I noticed. It was laying down and sawing the tree - I could definitely tell the difference from last year. And then dragging it out was more of a task than I remembered. It was a relief when our cousin met us half-way with his 4x4.

The point is, age combined with fatigue along with cold may have affected Marcia. I too, am not only going to re-examine some of my practices and skills. I am going to have to take in to consideration aging - it is a fact of life that I've been fighting with since I was born. It was brought to reality with Marcia's death as well as a visit to my 92 year old father (Bomber Pilot WWII) after getting a tree.

Our planned trip to Thailand in April continues to bring Marcia to mind. Again Marcia, thank you for all your help and encouragement and may you Rest in Peace.

 

[lowviz]

Yeah lowviz, that drill should hand me my a** on a platter. Going to have to check it out.


Bob

Nah, Bob. You'll do fine, but it will open your eyes.

It is also a good drill for all those supermen dive buddies that think that they will just sprint over to a panicking diver and take command of the situation. For them, I suggest air sharing.