Scuba diver dies after being found floating at Kurnell, NSW, Australia

[Scott]

So if my understanding is correct..would not this situation (with the BC seemingly full at depth) elicit a response from a reasonably observant and more experienced dry suit divers along the lines of: "why the heck are you wearing so much lead?"

I would have tought the same except I believe earlier posts mentioned Marcia was using a travel sized wing (20 lbs?). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on the wing size.

I may have missed this also but has it been stated how much total ballast she was wearing?

 

[Jim Lapenta]

The 30/30 tropical suit DUI sells is a trilam suit. I can agree with Tracy, after having 80 dives in a wetsuit I had my buoyancy nailed down really good. Then I got my drysuit...WOW. I felt like a complete newb all over again trying to figure it out. Pretty much had to blank out all my buoyancy rules I had in my wetsuit and start from scratch. One of the pictures above shows her with tank weights on a steel tank with a bp/w. I'm still trying to understand why she had weights on her tank band with a steel tank. I don't even put any weights on my tank band with an aluminum tank. I want all of my weight at or below my hips to help with the air in the feet.

You need to get with someone and address this. There are better ways to deal with air in the feet and distributing your weights.


A drysuit is not rocket science. But getting some help from a competent person who can give you real world advice and instruction sure takes the learning curve down a few notches. I had a student who was ready to give up his suit and just dive wet. Then he contacted me about a class after having taken one previously. What I saw was a lot of by the book teaching that while sounding good is not how most experienced divers use one. It took a nice long pool session and a couple dives but we got things straightened out quite nicely.

You need to be creative and more than anything patient and thorough. Look at all the options, get your weights adjusted and distributed properly and you'll save yourself a lot of grief and frustration.

---------- Post added October 13th, 2013 at 11:22 AM ----------

I would have tought the same except I believe earlier posts mentioned Marcia was using a travel sized wing (20 lbs?). Someone can correct me if I'm wrong on the wing size.

I may have missed this also but has it been stated how much total ballast she was wearing?

What I saw posted was 26 lbs plus a steel tank. Not sure on the plate.

 

[AfterDark]

Great, then I think we are all on the same page. I think a bunch of people, including me, believed your original post was implying that her buddy was supposed to be doing that type of dive on that day and failed to. Let's chalk it up to a misunderstanding and move on.

That's because what you quoted was not my original post. The original was post #236 or #237. The post you quoted was a response to someone that misunderstood the original post 236 or 237 and I left out the part about wishing she had such a buddy. "I'm just a soul who's intentions or good. Oh Lord please don't let me be misunderstood" The Animals – Don’t Let Me Be Misunderstood Lets move on.

 

[Diver0001]

So if my understanding is correct..would not this situation (with the BC seemingly full at depth) elicit a response from a reasonably observant and more experienced dry suit divers along the lines of: "why the heck are you wearing so much lead?"

That would seem to be more useful input than "hand holding" in 18 ft of water. Is this a red flag or am I off base?

Diving with a trilaminate suit, it will still be necessary to have a bit of air in the suit and enough of a "bubble" to offset the weight of the gas in the tank. Even with a totally balanced rig it's common for drysuit divers to carry a couple of kg of weight in order to allow for varying amounts of air in the suit (for warmth or for comfort).

I also know from experience that new drysuit divers often *tend* to over weight themselves slightly, presumably because it gives the diver a better feeling of control. I think for a lot of people that feeling comes from the fact that when you vent you can force yourself to sink even with a fair amount of air in the suit.

On both the first picture (bubble in the suit) and the last picture (bubble in the wing) the size of the bubble is quite substantial in my opinion. My first thought when I saw those two pictures is that if it were one of my students I would have fixed it.

That said, I'm curious how other drysuit divers respond to those pictures. I don't want to lead anyone to conclusions based only on my opinion of it.

R..

 

[scubadada]

Thanks for not bashing the newbie but I dare say demonstrating weight ditching and actually ditching AND swimming away from it are two very different matters altogether.

It's easy to learn, say and demonstrate that you will ditch your weight in times of difficulty but to many of us who've paid good hard cash for our equipment, part of our minds just will not do that instinctively. I know I won't. When my hoses were entangled and choking my neck, I tried swimming to the surface first. Perhaps Marcia did the same, couldn't and in the last few moments, didn't have the presence of mind to remove the weights in a calm manner as her air ran out.

I'm pretty sure I would give up a weight pocket or 2 if I thought my life was acutely at risk. I've never been in that situation so can't say that for sure.

I have considerable trouble seeing that I could go OOA unless there was some combination of unfortunate events such as catastrophic equipment failure and entanglement. I have encountered several potentially dangerous situtions but always had the time to methodically work them out without serious consequences. Many active divers probably have a similar experience.

Reading this thread makes me hope, that faced with a life-threatening emergency for me or a diver in my proximity, that I'm able to make the right decisions to increase the likelihood of a good outcome.

 

[al248005]

After thinking about the conversations that she had in the chatroom in previous days I remember her talking about trying different undergarments and being cold. The one picture shows a bunch of air in the suit. She could of very well had a bunch of weight on her to keep her at depth so she could fill the suit full of air trying to get max warmth. Also someone previously stated she had a camera rig. Could of been over weighted also to help keep her down so she could get pictures.

 

[Diver0001]

That may well be true but most people that give up their dive, just to follow their buddy around and watch them take photos are usually paid babysitters or, possibly, complete novices who are afraid of separation by more than a meter. That does not describe a normal buddy system, IMHO.

Yeah. Regardless of who could (or should) have been doing something differently, there was a disconnect in the buddy protocol. I would be very reticent to assign blame for that though, since these kinds of breakdowns can be complex and may not stem from one individual cause or one individual's role.

I'm happy for Afterdark that he's able to find buddies who are willing to babysit him but it wouldn't have worked I this case. Marcia's buddy told me that during their first check out dives that they stuck quite close and that Marcia requested after that dive to keep more distance. This leads me to believe, in combination with her habit of "drifting off" that the dynamic around the buddy protocols weren't as simple as deciding whether or not to "stick like a remora". It was also something that appears (now I'm speculating) not to have been completely clarified. Not to everyone's satisfaction at any rate.

Don't forget that this particular team of divers didn't have much experience diving together. A period of adjustment and feeling each other out is often necessary when diving with new buddies and during this period of adjustment one of the members of the team got separated from the group. The goal in this thread should be to try investigating the take-home message in that. Not to decide who is guilty.

To that end, what I see is that

- the divers didn't seem to be on the same page with respect to sticking together
- discussing that openly (speculation on my part) may have been complicated due to not wanting to step on any long toes
- a lot was done during the dive to try to keep the team together which was ultimately not 100% effective
- the buddy separation happened in shallow water at the end of the dive but the team still took it very seriously and started searching almost immediately. (to be perfectly honest I'm not sure if I would have responded so quickly given that there was no reason to suspect a problem).

R..

---------- Post added October 13th, 2013 at 06:00 PM ----------

What I saw posted was 26 lbs plus a steel tank. Not sure on the plate.

What I understand is that the number 26 was mentioned but not confirmed. I believe it was an estimation.

R..

 

[Jax]

Amazing how much difference we can have in our perceptions.

Agreement: We stick together and if we lose sight, we look for a minute, then we surface and wait one minute.

Stick together - glued shoulder to shoulder? One fin kick away? One behind the other? Within sight?

Lose sight - can't see him but there's his bubbles? Come up to see him, then drop back behind the rock to get that picture?

Communication is hard enough, but when you say the same words but come away with different ideas of what they mean, it gets rocky.

 

[AfterDark]

Yeah. Regardless of who could (or should) have been doing something differently, there was a disconnect in the buddy protocol. I would be very reticent to assign blame for that though, since these kinds of breakdowns can be complex and may not stem from one individual cause or one individual's role.

I'm happy for Afterdark that he's able to find buddies who are willing to babysit him but it wouldn't have worked I this case. Marcia's buddy told me that during their first check out dives that they stuck quite close and that Marcia requested after that dive to keep more distance. This leads me to believe, in combination with her habit of "drifting off" that the dynamic around the buddy protocols weren't as simple as deciding whether or not to "stick like a remora". It was also something that appears (now I'm speculating) not to have been completely clarified. Not to everyone's satisfaction at any rate.

Don't forget that this particular team of divers didn't have much experience diving together. A period of adjustment and feeling each other out is often necessary when diving with new buddies and during this period of adjustment one of the members of the team got separated from the group. The goal in this thread should be to try investigating the take-home message in that. Not to decide who is guilty.

To that end, what I see is that

- the divers didn't seem to be on the same page with respect to sticking together
- discussing that openly (speculation on my part) may have been complicated due to not wanting to step on any long toes
- a lot was done during the dive to try to keep the team together which was ultimately not 100% effective
- the buddy separation happened in shallow water at the end of the dive but the team still took it very seriously and started searching almost immediately. (to be perfectly honest I'm not sure if I would have responded so quickly given that there was no reason to suspect a problem).

R..

---------- Post added October 13th, 2013 at 06:00 PM ----------



What I understand is that the number 26 was mentioned but not confirmed. I believe it was an estimation.

R..

They find me not the other way around. Most of my diving is solo which is one of the reasons I'm such a bad buddy. I've told the 2 guys I'm thinking of similar things that Marcia told her buddy but I might as well be talking to fish. I stand firm, Marcia would have been better off with a buddy like that on that dive, damn shame.

By the way both of these divers I'm thinking of I met thru SB.

 

[beaverdivers]

On both the first picture (bubble in the suit) and the last picture (bubble in the wing) the size of the bubble is quite substantial in my opinion. My first thought when I saw those two pictures is that if it were one of my students I would have fixed it.

That said, I'm curious how other drysuit divers respond to those pictures.

Agreed! The bubble in the suit is huge in the first pic., but no air in wing.

The wing looks to be almost full in the second pic., but a small bubble in drysuit.

What are the specifics on the distribution of the weight?

Steel tank ( What size & make? ) = Buoyancy full (-9 lbs??), empty (-3 lbs)
plate ( material & model ? ) = Buoyancy ???
unditch-able weight = Buoyancy neg. ???
ditch-able weight = Buoyancy neg. ??
camera weight = Buoyancy neg. ?